Dangers in Jacking up RCZ

[Anonymous]

.the big blue (..pls do not think i'm a Z' hater as I Am Not, its incompetent persons in grey suits who sip coffee at HQ is what I despise) :sleeping-yellow: :clap:

For me it's the clueless nitwits at dealerships that make my blood boil. They are supposed to be the ones we turn to for accurate information on the vehicles that we buy from them and so often they open their gobs and shite comes out. It's not good enough :thumbdown:

I agree Ron that some dealers can give conflicting advice, but maybe, just maybe those people are being given conflicting advice direct from Peugeot .

I know for a fact that when my Z went in for a new sat nav screen the service manager knew on the very first visit that the screen would need replacing, he took me into the workshop and showed me a dismantled screen from another Z, and pointed out the exact problem, yet Peugeot insisted that I made 5 visits to go through a number of pointless checks and protocol.
Every visit I had an apology and was told they have to follow the advice that is sent from Peugeot.
The service manager would show me the "file" that had to be written up each time the car went in, it was a ridiculous waste of time and money, especially when the dealer knew exactly what the problem was and how to solve, but they had to follow Peugeots advice.
I can honestly say, that the service department at my local dealers have been fantastic, they look after my car completely, and are as frustrated with Peugeots ignorance as much as we are.
I cant comment on other Peugeot dealers, as we can only go on personal experience, but if I do hold onto my Z, I will continue to use Days of Swansea for all it's issues, (hopefully no more will arise).

 

[RCZ1]

I suppose like anything Jactac, Peugeot have protocols to follow, just like the majority of us do in our jobs. You have to show you have followed all the steps to justify your decisions.


Blog: http://rczandme.wordpress.com/

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah I agree K, but surely if the people on the ground can solve a problem and save money and time, then the suits up stairs need to start listening to these people.

These service guys are working on these cars day in day out, they know them like the backs of their hands, so leave them just get on with the jobs and get things sorted.

Peugeot must be losing thousands of pounds by just not listening to their people (service depts), and respect by not listening to it's customers. :roll:

 

[tianorth]

the sheets are in order it's just that some of the pictures ie the first on on sheet 2 goes with the last heading on sheet 1.

When Emma had sent this through I rang her back with several questions, as on the header of the document it states RCZ but these are generic pictures.

If you look closely at the pictures you can see that the lugs have a stand area and a jacking area on the same lug.

As I put it to her, I jack the vehicle up using the trolley jack or scissor jack, then with the vehicle still up in the air I remove the jack and replace it with an axle stand, but if I could do that I would not need either the jack or axle stands.

A few very long phone calls later. Basically the answer came back the technical team would not be willing to mark up the picture I sent as if anything went wrong they would be liable (not actual words but the gist of).

The only thing I can say is to contact Peugeot UK HQ, raised a reference number, and state you want the information to come from Peugeot and not the dealerships as the vehicle is a Peugeot, and Peugeot own the design and that you want the information to be passed to all RCZ owners.
Press for the information to come from the technical team or the design team.

Make sure that when they supply information is it specifically for the RCZ and not generic.

I asked for information to allow the rear of a RCZ to be jacked up using a trolley or scissor jack and to allow axle stand to be suitable placed in a structurally safe place manner.

If all members were to request this info from Peugeot HQ or PSA group there would be more weight, and if you can record your reference number possibly in a new thread just for this issue rather than looking through multiple sheets as I think Peugeot might say "we have not heard of this before" and then we can cross refer these number at a later stage if we don't get anywhere.

My ref number is :- Peugeot Reference Number 15573412

 

[Anonymous]

Tianorth,
fair play for persistence :clap:
But how poor is it that we cannot get a straight forward answer from Peugeot.

I have contacted someone with regards to my own damage and my email has been passed onto Peugeot, I await a reply.
In the meantime I will go back to my trusted dealer, seek out the service manager for Peugeot, and ask exactly what Peugeot have advised his department in regards to lifting/raising an RCZ.
I will also ask him if that advice is the same as an owner would of been given.
After speaking to him on this subject just a few days ago, I honestly believe I will be given the same information that I have already been told.
I have no doubt what so ever, that I will have an honest answer from this chap, as he has been very very open with me in the past regarding Peugeot and owning an RCZ.

 

[Anonymous]

Tianorth,
fair play for persistence :clap:
But how poor is it that we cannot get a straight forward answer from Peugeot.

Well I aint Tianorth, however I obviously believe it to be extremely poor. I shall be penning a letter to Peugeot UK HQ myself in due course and shall update this thread with their response.

I know that I have said it before and I shall repeat it to them, this car has caused me to fear having to jack it up, this is genuine fear and never previously has this been the case :thumbdown:

 

[tianorth]

If we (as in the forum users) can keep pestering Peugeot (in which ever country we are in) then it should eventually get back to PSA.

Especially if we all are asking the same question.

So please raise it with Peugeot, even if you are not really interested in the info.

Tianorth = Chris

 

[Anonymous]

For what its worth, I once asked my dealer where to jack it up with a trolley jack and they told me to use the vertical jacking points in the sills.


That document is far too generic to be of any use (that's aimed at Peugeot, not the person who posted it)

 

[Anonymous]

For what its worth, I once asked my dealer where to jack it up with a trolley jack and they told me to use the vertical jacking points in the sills.

At least you wasn't told " the Z is not intended to be lifted at all with any type of jack," as jactac was told. and I agree with you about the information supplied to Tianorth, far too generic to be of any use whatsoever :thumbdown:

 

[Anonymous]

I was indeed told that bit of advice, which came from a respected Peugeot dealer service manager, and so after considering all the evidence to date, ie. crumbling sills, damaged skirts and the fact that some owners are having to modify jacks to attempt a safe lift, it does seem that the advice I was given bares some credence.

I would suggest that being told to carry on lifting on these weak points is far poorer advice than to be told not to lift on these points . :eusa-think:

I can safely say that after looking at the evidence, pictures of damage, hearing of owners experience's, and the totally inadequate information from Peugeot, who's advice I will be listening to.

 

[RCZ1]

If indeed this was the case why don't Peugeot or the dealers give this information on handover. Indeed why does the handbook show the jacking points ?

I think this is a gross error by Peugeot to make such weak points for the weight that a RCZ is.

I still maintain that the jacking pucks Ron has made (and others that can be bought online) are the best thing you can have. The groove that is incorporated in the puck allows for the points to sit firmly in them and takes away the risk of damaging the sill, as that part does not come into contact with the jack or puck.


Blog: http://rczandme.wordpress.com/

 

[Anonymous]

Agree K fully with your points, and I have no doubt that Ron's hard work in getting these pucks made was a good idea, and will fit into the groove, however as far as I can see and been advised, the problem is not whether we can get a jack to fit, but the actual "jacking points" are not suitable for lifting the Z.

God for bid the last thing any of us would want to see is another member or any Z owner for that matter get hurt or even worse. :?
Afterall a car can get fixed..................... :eusa-think:

 

[Anonymous]

If indeed this was the case why don't Peugeot or the dealers give this information on handover. Indeed why does the handbook show the jacking points ?

Does not make very good press on their flagship vehicle is maybe one reason, cost to put it right another :eusa-think:

I know what my reaction would be on handover, after just passing with over £25000, when the sales guy says,
"oh by the way, dont attempt to jack the car up cos the sills will crumble" .

Cancel that cheque buddy, here's your keys back :evil:

 

[RCZ1]

Good point but it should be clearly laid out in literature or on the website / configurator that jacking should not be carried out.


Blog: http://rczandme.wordpress.com/

 

[Anonymous]

Yes without a doubt .

 

[Anonymous]

I would suggest that being told to carry on lifting on these weak points is far poorer advice than to be told not to lift on these points . :eusa-think:

I would suggest that not jacking up a car is not an option. The fact is that the car can be jacked up and jacking positions are provided for this purpose. Some dealerships may not be aware of these facts. It is also factual to say that damage has been inflicted upon our pride and joys when these jacking points have collapsed. The practical solution is to provide extra protection to these jacking points to ensure that the load upon them is vertical and that they cannot move side wards. I accept that this measure should not be necessary, but through personal experience and that of others it has been proven that the jacking points alone are not capable of doing the job that they are intended to do.

 

[the big blue]

Hi' all :greetings-wavingblue: ...this thread is certainly interesting and vibrant. In my personal and humble opinion Peugeot simply don't care, and the reason why they don't care is because they are fully aware that the car has a loyal and enthusiast fan base for a vehicle which they make in very small numbers. It may be a Flagship vehicle for the likes of us loyal owners. However, in the scheme of things for a mainstream car manufacturer their interest is in their bread and butter vehicles which are made and sold in large volumes as its mass sales that generate profits and NOT the likes of the Z' we all love regardless of any of its flaws. I don't wish to offend but capitalism makes this the is the sad truth. (and NO I'm not a red I'm as greedy as a politician !) :lol:

If Peugeot stopped producing the Z' tomorrow it would not greatly affect their annual turnover BUT if they stopped producing say the 308 it would drastically affect annual sales and so their interest is on the bread & butter vehicles and not their chic concept car experiment which they have made for them by Magna Steyr and not on a Peugeot production line.

Had "jacking points" that are NOT "fit for purpose" been found on the new 308, Peugeot would have had their engineers working day and night to amend the design, they certainly would not have manufactured a face lift model with the same inherent flaw followed by a very expensive RCZ-R without ironing out the genuinely known flaw !

There has been no recall issued (for liability purposes) as the 'motor industry' only does that as a last resort, instead all we have is HQ pretending that there is not really a problem, and dealerships who definitely know there is an issue BUT cannot and daren't say anything officially as that would be in contravention of HQ's denial on the matter.

I again ask that I am not viewed as a "hater" as I luv the chic individuality of the Z' and how it makes me feel ,,BUT like I said in a previous post, its whats underneath and what you can't see that's as important as what you can see. I had an Alfa Romeo and that is one marque' that always seems to put style above everything else and that fact is usually reflected in their position in the J.D POWER survey.

I fear that we can shout and scream at Peugeot HQ as that is what democracy is about but I fear that their 'corporate bean counters' have already done the math & weighed up the options and purely for financial reasons have decided that silence and denial is their best option.

.the big blue (..SORRY to go on like I do BUT I'm just a passionate Back Bencher seeking 'truth & justice' for our Z's and ourselves !) :beer:

 

[Anonymous]

I would suggest that being told to carry on lifting on these weak points is far poorer advice than to be told not to lift on these points . :eusa-think:

I would suggest that not jacking up a car is not an option. The fact is that the car can be jacked up and jacking positions are provided for this purpose. Some dealerships may not be aware of these facts. It is also factual to say that damage has been inflicted upon our pride and joys when these jacking points have collapsed. The practical solution is to provide extra protection to these jacking points to ensure that the load upon them is vertical and that they cannot move side wards. I accept that this measure should not be necessary, but through personal experience and that of others it has been proven that the jacking points alone are not capable of doing the job that they are intended to do.

It is blindingly clear that these so called jacking points are inadequate, this is why my dealer advised not to use them, and went further to say that the Z should only be lifted by a using a 4 point lift.
I would be more concerned if my dealer took the attitude of others and advised that all was ok, when clearly all is not ok.
The photos dont lie, and the total confusion in this area says theres a problem.

Now whether the advise I was given is because my dealer is looking out for my safety and my car, as a respected dealership should do, or if it was offered as a general rule of thumb I do not know or care, I'm just more than happy that my dealer and in particular the service manager had the knowledge and decency to speak out about this problem.

Ron,
I agree that modifying a jack like you have is a good idea, it will help to spread some of the weight on these still weak points, but come on, really think about it, the weakness is still there and the weight of the car is still bearing down on that one small area when lifting.

I think if the Z is lifted via a central lift, and put straight onto 2 axle stands on the "jacking points", like in the photo then this is probably the safest option due to the weight being spread full length of the sill.

Would I be comfortable doing this, then I think my answer would still be no, but in spreading the weight full length, on a DIY basis then this is probably our safest option. :?

 

[samwell]

This thread makes for some interesting reading.

I had a Kwik Fit mobile chap out today to change my two fronts. Whilst changing them he calls me outside to tell me he can't change the offside as when the car was jacked up, as you may have guessed, the jacking point failed and the car dropped about an inch.

Poor guy was gutted about having done it but knowing about this thread I knew it was a known issue. Unfortunately I hadn't read this thread in detail with the advice about using a four point lift, otherwise I would have taken it in!

Anyway, I rang my local Peugeot dealership for advice but was told they'd never heard of it before and said to look in the owners manual...thanks! :roll:

It is such a ridiculous problem to have on a car! Now I have one new tyre (the near side jacking point held up fine!) and have to get the car repaired before getting the other one sorted... :x

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hear that samwell, but you are correct it is a known issue, however Peugeot fail to recognise it as such :thumbdown: You really do need to protect the jacking points as best you can whenever the car is being jacked up. Shame and it shouldn't be that way but alas......... it is a fact