Potential Engine Recall?

[Anonymous]

I think, with such a serious allegation as that, you had better speak to Peugeot Group directly.

I don't need to speak to Peugeot, it's my opinionated technical understanding, and use of my freedom of speech, I am sure Peugeot will do whatever they feel, is the best corse of action for them.

 

[Anonymous]

Czar

You have just stated that someone very senior in Peugeot has been lying to members of the public on an open forum about a potential safety related issue....hope you have got the evidence to back that up!

Are you also saying that the RCZ and Mini share the same wiring system?

It doesn't matter how senior people are, It's simply my personal opinionated technical understanding, if Peugeot feel that it becomes a potential safety issue, I am sure they will take the necessary action, and the BMW MINI and Peugeot RCZ do not share the same wiring system.

 

[Anonymous]

Czar

You have just stated that someone very senior in Peugeot has been lying to members of the public on an open forum about a potential safety related issue....hope you have got the evidence to back that up!

Are you also saying that the RCZ and Mini share the same wiring system?

It doesn't matter how senior people are, It's simply my personal opinionated technical understanding, if Peugeot feel that it becomes a potential safety issue, I am sure they will take the necessary action, and the BMW MINI and Peugeot RCZ do not share the same wiring system.

Czar,

You have accused Peugeot of lying to the public in an open forum. Do you understand the massive legal and reputation implications that could have for Peugeot if it was true? Your evidence of "they are lying because in my opinion they are" doesnt really cut it.....

The two cars dont share a wiring system , or the same cooling system, or the same ecus & software, or under bonnet packaging of those components.....all of which make the installation different between the Mini & RCZ.

Just because they use shared components doesn't mean that they put the exact same stresses and demands on them in use hence there may be items that can fail on an RCZ that won't on a Mini or vice versa.

 

[Anonymous]

Czar

You have just stated that someone very senior in Peugeot has been lying to members of the public on an open forum about a potential safety related issue....hope you have got the evidence to back that up!

Are you also saying that the RCZ and Mini share the same wiring system?

It doesn't matter how senior people are, It's simply my personal opinionated technical understanding, if Peugeot feel that it becomes a potential safety issue, I am sure they will take the necessary action, and the BMW MINI and Peugeot RCZ do not share the same wiring system.

Czar,

You have accused Peugeot of lying to the public in an open forum. Do you understand the massive legal and reputation implications that could have for Peugeot if it was true? Your evidence of "they are lying because in my opinion they are" doesnt really cut it.....

The two cars dont share a wiring system , or the same cooling system, or the same ecus & software, or under bonnet packaging of those components.....all of which make the installation different between the Mini & RCZ.

Just because they use shared components doesn't mean that they put the exact same stresses and demands on them in use hence there may be items that can fail on an RCZ that won't on a Mini or vice versa.

Just my opinion, in an open forum, where I can have my opinion and freedom of speech, whether my opinion is wrong or right, The engine THP EP6DT/S 156 and 175 share the same engine, as fitted in the BMW MINI Cooper S engine code N14, they have the same water coolant pump, thermostat and turbo coolant pump, both share Bosch ECU's and electrical control sensors, fuel injection systems etc etc, there is more common ground, than you might think!

It was and is simply my opinion, and I am free to express that, like I have already said, if Peugeot deem it necessary to take preventative measures, then they will, regardless of what I or anybody writes, to the contrary, on a publicly read open forum, which allows freedom of speech, of any individual, with their opinion.

I am not out to, or have called Peugeot a liar, it's my opinion from my technical understanding point of view.

If my comments/opinions on this matter, have offended or upset the Peugeot RCZ forum community, then feel free to remove them.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note to close this down.

I've been speaking to someone at Peugeot (thanks for the rapid response, Richard!) and it appears we do in fact have a slightly different installation in PSA vehicles. This is what gives us added protection, as described in the forum response by Peugeot Group.

I think we can rest easy on this one now.

:lol: :lol: :lol: The auxiliary cooling pumps for the turbo, are exactly the same, as the ones fitted to the BMW MINI's, and the "PSA" vehicles do not have a different installation, nor do they have a different electrical feed, resistance or switching capability, Peugeot have had them go wrong, don't get me wrong, I am not saying they have had any fires, unlike BMW MINI, however they do go wrong on the Peugeot models, here is such a link right here on this very forum: pump-for-the-tubro-t3337.html

Peugeot are telling you, exactly what they want you to hear/believe, as so they don't set off a PANIC, and end up having to do a recall, like BMW MINI already have, I think they will sit back on the fence, and bury their head in the sand.

My source also says they HAVE had them go wrong, and also thinks there is NO difference in the wiring.

Paul141

 

[Anonymous]

Just my opinion, in an open forum, where I can have my opinion and freedom of speech, whether my opinion is wrong or right, The engine THP EP6DT/S 156 and 175 share the same engine, as fitted in the BMW MINI Cooper S engine code N14, they have the same water coolant pump, thermostat and turbo coolant pump, both share Bosch ECU's and electrical control sensors, fuel injection systems etc etc, there is more common ground, than you might think!

It was and is simply my opinion, and I am free to express that, like I have already said, if Peugeot deem it necessary to take preventative measures, then they will, regardless of what I or anybody writes, to the contrary, on a publicly read open forum, which allows freedom of speech, of any individual, with their opinion.

I am not out to, or have called Peugeot a liar, it's my opinion from my technical understanding point of view.

If my comments/opinions on this matter, have offended or upset the Peugeot RCZ forum community, then feel free to remove them.

Czar,

Im not offended by your opinion im just trying to explore its validity.

Your specific statement is that Peugeot have an issue they know about and they lying about it to avoid a vehicle recall.

Peugeot are telling you, exactly what they want you to hear/believe, as so they don't set off a PANIC, and end up having to do a recall, like BMW MINI already have, I think they will sit back on the fence, and bury their head in the sand.

Freedom of speech is not a defence to making libellous accusations even if you do it on the internet....

Your evidence is your opinion and the fact they have a substantial component overlap i.e using the same parts...however most if not all car manufacturers use ECU's,injection components,sensors,etc made by outside manufacturers like bosch or siemens for the simple reason that they don't own factories or the capacity to make these bits themselves.

The Mini has an issue that seems at the moment to be specific to the Mini , I can think of a large number of reasons why this could be the case...different approach in the software architecture leading to different usage parameters of the component, different usage of the component due to different operational environment....such as Mini is a tighter under bonnet package and as a result may run a hotter under bonnet atmosphere meaning this component gets more sustained use in its cooling function or is more exposed to degradation caused by the hotter environment. Different engine mapping software leading to higher combustion temperature causing higher turbo and exhaust temperatures meaning the component is working harder. Different wiring system architecture. The Mini has different body shell, mountings and suspension..the component may be subject to NVH that isn't generated by the RCZ installation.

 

[Anonymous]

My source also says they HAVE had them go wrong, and also thinks there is NO difference in the wiring.

Paul141

Paul, the wiring looms for an RCZ and a Mini are not the same :mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

Just my opinion, in an open forum, where I can have my opinion and freedom of speech, whether my opinion is wrong or right, The engine THP EP6DT/S 156 and 175 share the same engine, as fitted in the BMW MINI Cooper S engine code N14, they have the same water coolant pump, thermostat and turbo coolant pump, both share Bosch ECU's and electrical control sensors, fuel injection systems etc etc, there is more common ground, than you might think!

It was and is simply my opinion, and I am free to express that, like I have already said, if Peugeot deem it necessary to take preventative measures, then they will, regardless of what I or anybody writes, to the contrary, on a publicly read open forum, which allows freedom of speech, of any individual, with their opinion.

I am not out to, or have called Peugeot a liar, it's my opinion from my technical understanding point of view.

If my comments/opinions on this matter, have offended or upset the Peugeot RCZ forum community, then feel free to remove them.

Czar,

Im not offended by your opinion im just trying to explore its validity.

Your specific statement is that Peugeot have an issue they know about and they lying about it to avoid a vehicle recall.

Peugeot are telling you, exactly what they want you to hear/believe, as so they don't set off a PANIC, and end up having to do a recall, like BMW MINI already have, I think they will sit back on the fence, and bury their head in the sand.

Freedom of speech is not a defence to making libellous accusations even if you do it on the internet....

Your evidence is your opinion and the fact they have a substantial component overlap i.e using the same parts...however most if not all car manufacturers use ECU's,injection components,sensors,etc made by outside manufacturers like bosch or siemens for the simple reason that they don't own factories or the capacity to make these bits themselves.

The Mini has an issue that seems at the moment to be specific to the Mini , I can think of a large number of reasons why this could be the case...different approach in the software architecture leading to different usage parameters of the component, different usage of the component due to different operational environment....such as Mini is a tighter under bonnet package and as a result may run a hotter under bonnet atmosphere meaning this component gets more sustained use in its cooling function or is more exposed to degradation caused by the hotter environment. Different engine mapping software leading to higher combustion temperature causing higher turbo and exhaust temperatures meaning the component is working harder. Different wiring system architecture. The Mini has different body shell, mountings and suspension..the component may be subject to NVH that isn't generated by the RCZ installation.

You can state whatever you like, the fact remains that BMW MINI have been forced in to recall, of a component, which is subject to failure, and I am not going to state on a public forum, the exact cause of failure, as that will lead me into trouble, and yes I do know the exact reasons why these particular cooling pumps are failing, within the BMW MINI range of affected vehicles, lets just say "I have the necessary knowledge"

 

[Anonymous]

Ahh the old "I can tell you but I would have to kill you" line ehh :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Ahh the old "I can tell you but I would have to kill you" line ehh :lol:

Not really, you just don't seem to know who I am, what I do for a living, and what I know.

 

[Anonymous]

No all I can see is someone who has made an unsubstantiated accusation under the guise of freedom of speech and when called on it has offered no evidence of any sort or any information to back up the alleged position of authority you deem to speak from. If you have the knowledge you say you do post it or has your freedom of speech line been a load of hot air?

 

[Anonymous]

No all I can see is someone who has made an unsubstantiated accusation under the guise of freedom of speech and when called on it has offered no evidence of any sort or any information to back up the alleged position of authority you deem to speak from. If you have the knowledge you say you do post it or has your freedom of speech line been a load of hot air?

As stated quite clearly in a previous post, I am tied to disclose any technical information, as that would land me in, hot water, I value my job far too much, I merely offered my point of view, and now you seem to think I am the bad guy, in all this, it is no skin of my nose, what stance Peugeot decide to take on this matter, regarding the cooling pump for the turbo, you guys will just have to wait and see.

 

[Anonymous]

Czar,

I don't think you are a bad guy or the bad guy , I have actually enjoyed the discussion so far.

My issue is:

You offer no evidence when asked for it other than "I know something you don't know"

You state you have some sort of special inside knowledge but again you can't tell anyone about it due to your job "I can't tell you the something I know that you don't know"

You were happy to make accusations that Peugeot are lying... an accusation which could land you in court for libel, saying you have the right to an opinion and can use freedom of speech to make this accusation but your bravado doesnt extend to discussing the actual nitty gritty of what you alledge you know.

It's no skin off my nose if the RCZ needs a recall as my Peugeot has a 3.0 HDi with 270 bhp.

Have a good evening

:beer:

 

[Anonymous]

It's no skin off my nose if the RCZ needs a recall as my Peugeot has a 3.0 HDi with 270 bhp.

No warranty then :lol: Love the discussion, but most of all this punch line :clap:

 

[Anonymous]

Czar,

I don't think you are a bad guy or the bad guy , I have actually enjoyed the discussion so far.

My issue is:

You offer no evidence when asked for it other than "I know something you don't know"

You state you have some sort of special inside knowledge but again you can't tell anyone about it due to your job "I can't tell you the something I know that you don't know"

You were happy to make accusations that Peugeot are lying... an accusation which could land you in court for libel, saying you have the right to an opinoin and can use freedom of speech to make this acusation but your bravado doesnt extend to discussing the actual nitty gritty of what you alledge you know.

It's no skin off my nose if the RCZ needs a recall as my Peugeot has a 3.0 HDi with 270 bhp.

Have a good evening

:beer:

My evidence is not linked to Peugeot, my actual knowledge and evidence is linked directly to the BMW MINI issue with the turbo cooling pump, something of which I have made quite clear, however, in non of my posts, have I accused Peugeot of lying, of which is open to libel accusation, I have however stated, there is a very common link, and a potential for the same turbo cooling pump, as fitted to the engine, of which Peugeot install into some of their vehicle model range, could possible suffer from the same failing issue, as found in the BMW MINI Copper S and JCW models, and years of manufacture, as listed by BMW MINI.

I simply was enlightening you guys to the fact, that you may or may not find yourselves with the same issue, as the affected BMW MINI vehicles, "Peugeot" then responded with the statement, that their vehicles are fitted with such diagnostic system, it would/could detect any possible fault, at a very early stage, and stop it's electrical supply, that I don't disagree with, however, to detect a fault, a fault has to have occurred in the first place! And if the diagnostic system detects a fault, and cuts the electrical supply, what happens to your turbo, which is no longer getting, the necessary cooling aid, it requires, from the on board diagnostic system (ECU) detecting the need for aided cool down of the very very hot turbo!

:beer:

 

[Anonymous]

I expect the BMW MINI issues are related to packaging in the engine bay. Other manufacturers, more recently Ferrari and their 458 had a series of engine fires related to engine packaging and they rectified the problem once it had been identified.

Even when you look at both engines in the respective bays you can see how tight the engine and its ancillary equipment is squeezed in. Great job I have to say but I would guess that the RCZ's engine bay is very slightly bigger. Yes the wiring/electrics on the engine itself is likely to be the same but of course the main wiring loom of both cars is going to be very different. So here are two visual comparisons, first up the RCZ's and then followed by the Mini Cooper's engine bay.

 

[Anonymous]

I expect the BMW MINI issues are related to packaging in the engine bay. Other manufacturers, more recently Ferrari and their 458 had a series of engine fires related to engine packaging and they rectified the problem once it had been identified.

Even when you look at both engines in the respective bays you can see how tight the engine and its ancillary equipment is squeezed in. Great job I have to say but I would guess that the RCZ's engine bay is very slightly bigger. Yes the wiring/electrics on the engine itself is likely to be the same but of course the main wiring loom of both cars is going to be very different. So here are two visual comparisons, first up the RCZ's and then followed by the Mini Cooper's engine bay.

Your post images, are of different engines, you have put up the RCZ fitted with the THP 200 engine, BMW MINI code (N18) which is different to the N14 engine (THP 175) as seen in your image of the BMW MINI, that said, both these engines share this turbo cooling pump, albeit, possibly not affected, as there have been a few revisions of this particular cooling pump.

 

[Anonymous]

Swiftly edited, thanks :beer:

 

[Anonymous]

ROFL!!! :lol:

This all a bit pathetic. I thought I had left the days of "I know something you don't know" well behind in the playground. I guess not.

If you know something, brilliant, if you don't, that's wonderful too.

The simple fact of the matter is that Peugeot hasn't issued a recall based on the issue with the mini. Until that point I'm not going to worry and I'm not going to bother arguing on an internet forum about it.

 

[Anonymous]

The simple fact of the matter is that Peugeot hasn't issued a recall based on the issue with the mini. Until that point I'm not going to worry and I'm not going to bother arguing on an internet forum about it.

That sums up my thoughts too :clap: :clap: :clap: