starter clicking and electric warning on dash with stop sign rcz diesel

[danieldavid]

hi anyone who has suggestions that might help solve.

left car parked unlocked for few days, wouldnt start, i charged it at low power on charger and it just started, went for a 20 mile mostly fast drive and thought it would be fine, but again only just started on the second attempt, stopped 5 miles later to get diesel and couldnt start it. thankfully i was right next to an mot garage next door to fuel station and they thankfully helpfully jump packed it and it started. Ive charged the battery to 12.5 volts, ive got it nose to nose with my other rcz diesel and jump leaded the two batteries together, the other one o know starts fine, but still wont start. ive tried a few times to do bsi reset, but it just keeps clicking once loudly when i try to turn over the starter. I think the battery is fine, but for some reason the jump back at that garage seemed to start it first time,m i know they deliver loads of current, but i cant start it so far even with two bateries together. i found a loose nut on the fuse connections of the bpcm, i think thats what its called, it sits on the battery, im guessing it cant be a fuse as the jump pack started it, and cant be the battery as the other rcz starts and ive got them connected together with heavy duty jumpy leads, ive thought of swapping ober the bpcm module with my spare rcz, are there any obvious things i should check, when i drove it the other day, there was power shortage to everything, even though battery fine, warnings for power steering and abs esp which are all electric driven, the power steering was even going heavy. im sure ive reset the bsi correctly from procedure, any suggestions or ideas welcome, thanks ps i cant think it could be the fuse for the starter motor relay as it started with the jump pack the other day by garage.

 

[danieldavid]

on the fuse diagrams the battery charge, power steering and abs esp fuses are all in the bpcm unit. i had this happen nce before a year ago and someone jumped it from a pack, and it just charged up normally after a drive, but this time its not restarting so far. so the bpcm unit wasnt faulty a year ago, im guessing it night be a software issue or code, i need to get software for my opd2 elm little scanner, i only had it on windows xp and my last xp laptop isnt working as its so old. has anyome had to delete codes before to reset, i thought just a bsi reset is supposed to work, i dont know if any codes would be within obd2 list, or extra ones in other scanners.

i checked the starter fuse and bsi fuse but they look fine. i saw a vidoe somewhere if i can find it again where the person removed a plug of wiring for bsi on fuse box under bonet to get it to start on a peugeot. i can try to find that video, but he said that the bsi was carrying out checks that could prevent a start from occuring.

 

[danieldavid]

sorry bpga not bpcm

 

[danieldavid]

i tried bridging the screws with wire on the bpga as it says to online to see if it then starts, but it didnt. Whats even more strange is that theres about 13v across the battery and between live battery and chassis, but only 1.7 volts on the bpga, which rises to 3.5v when i turn the ignition on. I checked the one on my spare rcz and with ignition off, all the connections were at zero. That other rcz starts, though it does pull up the error message about battery, the previous owner had reset the bsi to clear that, and interstingly the passenger window doesnt work on that one whuich ive read can be a result of the reset pricess not competing properly. the joys of french car electrics. in case anyone has experience of this issue, thanks

 

[danieldavid]

ps, if the starter is clicking or the relay is clicking, does anyone know if the relay is seperate and might have failed, or if the starter might have failed if it makes one click

 

[danieldavid]

thankfully got my ancient basic elm327 to load on a windows 10 laptop. Will try to read codes tommorow. If i was looking for a cheap scanner that covers pretty much everything diy level, eloys fluid, ebs, on top of basic codes, and chassis and body codes not just engine codes, is there a particular scanner anyone would recommend?

 

[Verminator]

Sounds like a good idea to get a new battery as the Hdi do need a good voltage to kick start it.. If you have had to just it off check the white fuse in the fuse box.. If fuse is OK could well be down to the battery module on top of the battery check all the fuses there to..
Hope this helps you out
Drive safe and stay lucky
Les n Co

 

[danieldavid]

thanks Les, i just tried it again after leaving it for a couple of days, it still has 12.64v in the battery, i managed to wire up the multimeter and its only dropping to 11.67v when trying to start it, it makes a loud click, then another when i release the key from the turn. It started the other day when a garage put a jump pack on, but i just wired up again the battery in my spare rcz and it still just clicks. So im guessing the battery is ok, the starter is ok, i checked the fuse f8 for starter, it looked fine with no signs of burn, when you say the white fuse im guessing you dont mean f14, thats the only white one on the diagram, im guessing you mean the fuse in the bpga. I might be wrong but i thought that was part of the bpgm and cant be changed. I tried bridging the screws at the front of the bpgm but it still didnt start, so im guessing its not the bpgm. I tried to clear codes with my old fashioned elm327, but its not finding the car for some reason, tried loads of port and baud rate combinations, the only time this ever happened before a year ago, the person then checked and i think cleared codes to reset the car before jumping it. I could swap the bpgm with the one on my other rcz that does start,, but i dont think thats the problem. im wondering if there are codes blocking it. When i put the ignition on i get the coiled wire display on the dash, i dont think this is normal for ignition, it dissapears when i try to turn the starter then comes back. I dont think the earth can be bad as i can read the battery voltage from the chasis to pos terminal on the battery, unless its preventing current transfer. The click is so loud, i dont think its the battery, but i might be wrong, especially given that ive put jumpy leads to my other rcz battery. If ive bridged the two nuts/bolts at fromt of bpgm and ,it still doesnt start, but it does with a jump pack, would you think that rules out the bpgm as the issue. Its been ages since i used the elm327, i think it s supposed to read codes with just the ignition on, i dont think it has to have engine running, i cant start it presently, this might be why i cant connect to see the codes... many thanks again

 

[danieldavid]

les i eventually thankfully got my prehistoric elm327 to work, gave codes p1349, p1350 and p1351, and mil, i cleared them, but it still clicks and doesnt start but now i notice the internal light is starting to dim a bit, ive put it on charge. im tempted to just buy a new battery, but the battery in my spare rcz is almost new and ive used jump leads to connect to it so wouldnt have thought it was that, but given it started with a jump pack, it does seem to be the battery. The day it first never started was the day the mil came on when i charged it. codes are variable valve timing, ignition control module, and voltage in ignition control moduke. That might have been me bridging the contaxcts on the bpga, i suspect these arent the issue, but whether there are other codes i cany see with elm327 that are stopping it starting. I might have to buy a better diagnostic tool. I could try charging up the other rcz battery as well and connecting them both together. If this fails i might swap over the bpga units.

 

[danieldavid]

ps, for bsi reset, does anyone know if you have to disconnect the negative battery terminal, or is it enough to disconnect just the positive for the minimum time?thanks

 

[danieldavid]

this is getting more strange, i thought i would carry out two tests. 1 - starting my spare rcz and jump starting from it running, to give more voltage and current, and 2 seeing if my spare rcz would run off my main rcz battery in situ by using jump leads, both tests failed, yet my multimeter is showing around 12 volts across the l;eads. my spare rcz has no power from the jump leads to even turn on the interior lights yet it powers everything except starting on my main rcz. Im beggining to think that i havent had extra current from the working rcz, so it could be the battery with low current. i watched a video today of someone saying that a single click on the starter indicates a starter isue but multi clicks indicates a battery issue, but mine is a single click, and i dont think its the starter, ive had so many warning lights about economy mode, i might swap the batteries tommorow and failing that, swap the bpgas over. i never got access to the negative terminal for bsi reset so could try that aswell

 

[danieldavid]

one thing i meant to ask in case anyone knows, but when i try to start it and it clicks once, theres a coiled wire looking light warning on my left dash dial, it appears and dissapears when i turn the ignition to start the starter, any ideas if this is indicating anything, i dont think this normally appears, does this appear if you try to start the car when its in economy mode? Each time i turn the key and the solenoid clicks, the light dissapears until i release the key.

 

[Pedro]

The coil is for teh Glow plugs signalling the reheating is working if it goes out when ignition is triggered can you get hold of a battery circuit testing scanner for the starter-battery & cold cramp amps testing data ?

 

[danieldavid]

many thanks Pedro. I havent got one but i did try to check the volts not amps on the multimeter while turning the key, it dropped i think from 12.6 to 11.7 volts but that was with the starter not triggering other than solenoid clicking on and off once each time. Im going to try to swap batteries over tommorow. I see your pointing to the battery as well, les did also. It would make sense it is somehow as the jump pack started it at the garage. This has only happened once like this around a year ago and i had parked at a supermarket for half an hour and left my phone on charge through the usb while in the store, that triggered off exactly the same thing, the only time ive called a rescue vehicke out, he scanned and cleared codes and jump pack started it and its been fine for a year. It wasnt the battery that time as the alternator charged it and it was fine. But this time its not recovering, even when ive charged the battery from charger ive had warning lights everywhere. Im wondering if it might be codes need cleared as well. But ill try the battery first as youve both said it sems to be battery related. Ive got a basic elm327 thats ancient, if i wanted a reader that would cover everything for the rcz, esp abs, eloys fluid updates etc, any ideas whats the cheapect option for peugeots or generic, many thanks..

 

[danieldavid]

ps, ive done a bsi reset but only disconnected the pos not neg, would disconnecting pos and neg for minutes clear any codes i cant see from my basic elm327, thanks

 

[danieldavid]

i charged the battery on my spare rcz, it started fine but was down to 11.5 volts, so its at nearly 13v now, it was a brand new battery just before i bought it weeks ago with clutch fluid leak, i checked the charge on my main rcz and battery is full and wont take more charge, loads of volts, i connected both batteries together with pretty heavy jump leads, but still clicking, though thankfully the glow plug light has stopped coming on now, i had never seen that before. im tempted to buy a ju,mp pack as i know that starts it, but even 2 batteries, 1 of them new, makes it click. its a really loud click, I think what ive doe is the same as fitting a new battery. on a positive note i swapped over the caliper that ive had to free off about 5 times in the past year or so, i thankfully found a video on how to seal the bolt connection to caliper, he said to tighten, then hit with a hammer on the socket then tighten further, as it flatens the join between the bolt and caliper with the copper washer. elextric seatsa and a couple of bits of wood are helpful in bleeding a brake caliper, as a one man job. I found a thread from a couple of years ago with someone with same situation, pedro you responded to him, but it suddenly cleared once he got it started with 2 batteries. Will investigate further before buying another battery, many thanks again

 

[danieldavid]

charged both batteries, wired them together, put the battery on charge at same time to add voltage and current, it started to click twice not once when i turned the key. i think the cars computer is somehow restricting the power to the starter, and a jump pack is enough to override and start it. i think ill source a jump pack next.

im hoping once it starts a few times that it will reset. i think i might have triggered this off by leaving car unlocked for days and not used, and something drew current.

 

[danieldavid]

ok, beginning to think this is the starter, as its clicking once. Ive got delivery of a decent powered jump pack, fully charged it and it still doesnt start. wondering if the economy mode is a result of the starter, and not the other way round. consensus seems to be that the economy mode doesnt cut power to the starter though might cut to other things. For the starter to click so loudly, suggests full power is getting to the solenoid, i could try to check power delivery to the starter, but the big jump pack that started it by garage days ago might have been so big a capacity that its overwelming a tight starter, but everything else isnt quite powwerful enough to.

ive read imobiliser can cause power to be cut from starter, but that wouldnt explain how the garage was able to start it with a large capacity jump pack. i mihgt swap the starters over and see if it starts. as far as i can see theres no switch between positive supply to starter and battery i dont think, so guessing the solenoid mechanism that is meant to make connection to drive starter isnt happening even though power is getting to the solenoid. it looks quite simple to ge tthe starter out

 

[danieldavid]

in case of help to anyone else if they have such a strange problem

1 - i started preparing to swap over the batterty bpga and starter but removing the airbox and sensor and disturbing the wires near the battery, and i tried it and it started after i had dosconnected the battery for a few mins, then it stopped stasrting again. i checked voltage from the bpga and it was down to 9v but 12.5 from battery. i disconnectede all the plugs around the bpga and tried starting, then put them back, and it started 3 times in a row. on the third time i went for a drive ffor 30 miles, and al the error messages dissapeared, so it looks like its not the starter, or the bpga or the battery, but it seems to reset after a battery disconnect which im guessing this time mihght have reset the bsi.my parking sensors usyally dont work, and when it started, the parking alarms were going off with graphics on screen. so in case this happens to anyone, it looks like its the system somehow locking up and it takes a battery disconnect and good drive to reset all the issues. it drove fine, no esp abs or steering alarms or issues, i dont understand how this works but the errors have all cleared and its not in economy mode. ill see if it starts tommorow....

I also tapped the starter with a hammer, cleaned and tightened batery terinals in places, wiggled he bpga around a bit and the wires after disconnecting & reattaching.

2 - i finally swapped he front calliper, i had cleaned it 5 times in a year to free it off, mpg was affected a lot at times due to binding. the simplest way to handle a completely unrecoverable caliper (mine i couldnt compress with g glamps or caliper compression tools) was to buy a complete caliper and pads set used from a scrapyard on ebay. was really easy, just swapped everything. The inbly issue is to get he hose to fit with the screw and copper built in washers. in case you get a leak, i found a video on youtube, but it seems to seal if you hammer the screw onto the calliper once its tight, then tighten it further. It seems to have worked, dot 4 topped up. That was getting really hot, i couldnt touch the disc, the wheel bolts are tight as well, im tempted to replace all 5 on that wheel, its got so hot, thankfully the wheel bearing has survived the heat. Will keep an eye on the brake fluid, but think it should be fine now, that its been tightened up well. Its duel circuit breaking anyway.

3 - in case anyone is loking for a cheap jump pack brand, i got one off ebay for around £27, its an ogori b28, it has about a twentieth of a kilowat hour, i tried it to start the other rcz by completely disconnecting battery and it almost started it with no battery on 3 attempts, so im guessing it would work on a half depleted battery. It depleted from 99 to 84 percent in around 10 seconds. I thought it would resolve what was goping on with mine, but it seems to be a system issue thats hopefully reset.