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RCZ GT THP200, full service history 41k

Riverdancer

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I would like to know what people think about the cam damage. On a 2013 registered vehicle, how ow long years/mileage would it take for this level of damage? Is it the worst cam pitting ever seen? Possible cause, short journeys etc. However, I still don't think that an engine with 41k, last serviced at 35K should have this level of cam damage.
Is it because of low oil pressure, blocked oil feeds, vanos faults etc? What needs to be changed for a full repair I.e., lifters, followers, cams, timing chain, water pump, actuators, springs, vanos valves etc? Far worse on the intake cam.20210514_163407.jpg
Due to a lack of fault codes I've spent months changing various components I.e., MAF, MAP, O2 sensors, battery and throttle body, due to no fault codes. I now have P000a for the first time.20210514_163418.jpg20210514_163416.jpg20210514_163413.jpg20210514_163410.jpg
 

RCZIain

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Depending on how much you love the car, I'd be looking at that and thinking it was skip time.
 

Riverdancer

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Depending on how much you love the car, I'd be looking at that and thinking it was skip time.
This reply just shows why forums don't work. Moderator, you want to moderate your own life! I ask for some knowledge and get a totally crass comment. I suggest that you need to pack in your moderation role....
 

RCZIain

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Well thank you for your suggestion.
I think maybe you need to moderate yours. Or at least lay off the coffee/get more sleep.

I wasn't aware that being a mechanic was a mandatory part of being on a forum.
Besides the word forum means "a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged"

Not "sort my problem now or I'll spit my dummy out"

I gave my opinion, if it's going to cost a lot of money I'd get rid. There are plenty of others around.
 

Pedro

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I would lay odds that engine has never had proper services you only get that amount of damage from poor properly filtered lubrication & the Prince engines need a constant supply of fresh oil changes + filters I have just done mine after 3.500 klm & if you saw under my rocker cover you'd know what I'm rabbiting on about the camshafts look clean & free from any sludge residues or any other crap deposits
Secondly it appears its been run for long periods on low oil levels as the pitting is a product of too much generated heat causing friction on moving parts due to lack of lubrication from continuous low oil pressure
To put right that amount of damage is a major rebuild or a new unit from a breakers yard etc I have seen recon engines for around £4000 to the upper ranges of £10.000 but if the car is in good condition its a big dilemma to decide if it justifies all that outlay
 

MPC

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I almost puked when i saw those pictures....
But agree with Pedro, seems a lack of lubrication, especially because of the extreme pitting, you dont see that often. I would suggest looking at the oil sump while you're at it, and see if there is any issue with the oil pump (partially blocked or something like that)
Not sure what needs replacing, but these cams can sometimes be refinished, while im not sure, as i have never seen this much pitting.

Good luck, and maybe a donor-engine might be cheaper :rolleyes:
 

RCZ-R

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I agree with the diagnosis above here: a neglected engine which run most time on low level oil & low revs (city driving only?) while "overheating" in the head area because of lack of oil lubrication. That is really bad for only 41k.
I remember the cams on my R with 130k on the clock looked like new.
 

E.C.Ewe

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For that level of corrosion and pitting I would be thinking WATER. Maybe the head gasket has gone at some point and not fixed, car continued to be used over a long period. Colder winter months with it sitting with lots of WATER in the engine could cause that. Is there any evidence of oil or water leaks or head gasket failure? A previous owner could maybe have done several engine oil flushes to get rid of emulsified oil or finally had the head gasket replaced but the damage has already been done and has sold the car. How long have you owned the car and how many miles have you driven? Either way it is definitely new cams and anything else that is corroded, compromised or non functioning e.g. oil pump. Could the car have done many more miles than the 41k you believe i.e. 141k and then been clocked? Or maybe I am wrong and the engine has just been totally neglected, servicing was a tick box exercise and consequently it was run with very little oil in it causing the cams to over heat and pit. I'd also be concerned about the main bearings if this was the case, in fact the whole engine.
 

Riverdancer

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Thanks for your reply E.C.Ewe
The car did have an engine flush and Vanos replacement prior to the sale. Fortunately for me, I purchased the car on HP, unfortunately my warranty was for three months only and only covered mechanical repairs and did not include any electrical faults. For over three months I replaced numerous sensors believing it to be electrical as no fault codes were ever displayed. After replacing virtually every sensor and throttle body the damage was diagnosed, just a few days prior to the 6 months liability period i.e., the 2015 Consumer rights Act dictates that the goods must be fit for purpose and the damage was already present at the time of purchase.
I am currently in negotiation with my lender, who under terms of the law has to replace the car like for like, get it repaired or refund me in full. However, the terms of the 2015 act specify 30 days as a reasonable time period to receive a response in respect of the damage. They have quoted 56 days to respond! As you will appreciate I'm not too happy about this and have spoken to trading standards, Citizens Advice, the Financial Ombudsman and also sought legal advice from a law firm. Last week I was instructed to provide the HP company 14 days for a response prior to taking legal action. So far after serving the 14 days I haven't received any response. However, there are 8 days left for them to respond. I also believe you are correct on the possible other areas of damage i.e., big ends, oil pump etc. and I will expect nothing less than a like for like replacement, a full engine rebuild or full refund.
The HP provider is also questioning when my fault developed, luckily I had a previous post on here asking for possible causes which they have been provided the link to. I also had numerous post of Facebook in the RCZ owner club. However, my account was hacked and I lost everything, but I re-joined and commented on my issue a week or so before the diagnosis, so again have the information to back my claim.
As far as the car being clocked. I spoke to the garage that had carried out four of the services. They instantly knew of my car and stated that the owner had nothing but issues with it, which surprised them with the lack of mileage that the vehicle was covering under his ownership. So I'm under the impression that the mileage should be genuine, but who knows. I have covered 6K miles in the car. It has just come up with a service warning for another 8 weeks time or covering just over 8k miles. Watch this space!
 

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There is another post on here from guppy who took on where he got his rcz from and went to court and beat the big boys look for his post, might help you out
 

E.C.Ewe

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Maybe you can get the ECU read to see if the mileage has been changed? Maybe some one who knows how to could check this for you? How about mileages on the MOT history? It's all on line now although a new car only needs a first MOT after 3 years. I wouldn't be happy with the car. Sounds like you are on their case. Good luck.
 

Riverdancer

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@E.C.Ewe thanks for the reply! I think that it will be dealt with by my legal representation. The lender seems to have gone AWOL. They can't even acknowledge my communications which in terms of UK law is all good for me!
 

Riverdancer

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Just a quick update. My car was booked into the garage for the camshaft replacements this Monday. I left a message for the garage owner last Monday to say that I couldn't have the work done because I was still in discussion with my lender. I originally provided the lender with various options, however my lender has ignored all of my emails. Their only response being a period of 54 days to investigate and get back to me with a decision on any possible liability. On the plus side I'm glad that they didn't come back to me on my previous solutions!!!!!!
The garage has now stated that they've discussed the engine in more detail. They have decided that they won't touch the engine without a strip down of the bottom end to check the oil pump etc, which could result in £1000's more in repairs.
I now have to wait for another 40 days or so to get a decision off the lender on whether they will replace, repair or refund. However, my last email rejected the car and requested a full refund, including any HP payments after the date of the email.
Sad to say but I'll be paying for a solicitor to legally reject the car. Albeit this will cost me money and it won't be recoverable, I'm not being left with a albatross around my neck! I'd rather pay a solicitor than be made a fool of by companies that think that they can sh#t all over you.
It's a disgrace that consumer law states 30 days max to deal with an issue but citizens advice and trading standards can't do anything about the lenders timeframe. Meanwhile I'm stuck with no job and transport that isn't reliable enough to get me anywhere....
 

Mikefranky

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I feel your grief as I went through it years ago those were the days of Arthur daily where consumers didn’t have a leg to stand on....by the looks of it those days are still here going by your post

Looking at your previous pictures of the camshafts I definitely say that’s water damage.
 
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