Is my timing chain about to let go or is there something simpler I can do?

[RossJ]

Hi all,


My 2013 THP200 is getting to the point where I think a timing chain replacement is urgent, but I wanted to check I'm not misreading the symptoms and could get away with doing something much simpler?


For a while last year I was getting constant P000A errors, tried replacing camshaft sensor A but made no difference. Some research led me to think it might be related to the VVT solenoid but after a few unsuccessful attempts at getting it out I gave up on that, then after the car had been in to the garage for an unrelated issue (A/C condenser) the errors disappeared and all seemed good.


Now it's back with constant P000A along with P0012 and it's noticably running rough and periodically down on power. For a long time it's been a bit rattly when cold but now sounds awful even when warm.


It's high mileage (116k miles) so surely it's begging for a new chain? Or will a new chain tensioner suffice for now? If I fit a new tensioner am I still running the risk of the chain snapping and wrecking the engine? Or will it just stretch to the point of it running like a pig all the time?


Sorry lots of questions, just paranoid about the chain going bang and leaving me stranded!

Thanks

 

[Kerr]

If the car has got to 116k miles on the original chain then you're luck will run out soon.

It does strongly sound like the timing chain. I'd get a mechanic to check it out before it's too late.

Sadly it's not a cheap job.

 

[lfe]

Try changing just the tensioner. I did it 40,000 km ago and never heard the knocking noise again when cold. The engine now has 146,000 km.

You might be pleasantly surprised.

...and above all, change the oil every 10,000 km or 6,000 miles.

 

[Charlie1875]

If it’s down on power and rattling when warm I’d say get the chain done asap

 

[Kenneth]

Try changing just the tensioner. I did it 40,000 km ago and never heard the knocking noise again when cold. The engine now has 146,000 km.

You might be pleasantly surprised.

...and above all, change the oil every 10,000 km or 6,000 miles.

The chain should go on and on if everything else has been maintained. And oil has been changed out and kept topped up. as your one shows. I’ve got my chain kit sitting if I decide it needs done. But I won’t be doing it while the original stays good. I’m only on 76k anyway. I reckon I can go same again with this chain as I’m looking after the oil situation. We shall see. My mechanic will only be charging me 300 labour anyway so it’s not cost putting me off. There tends to be warning with chains. They rarely just snap like belts will if you leave them on too long

 

[RossJ]

Yea I think the error codes and the bad noises are my warning!

Time to get it changed I think, any recommendations for garages in Oxfordshire? Or do I just bite the bullet and take it to Peugeot in Oxford?

 

[Kerr]

I wouldn't be putting it to the Peugeot garage. They will likely have higher labour charges and probably haven't done the job as often as a indie specialist.

Have you not got someone that specialises in Minis nearby? They'll be familiar with the engine.

 

[lfe]

The chain should go on and on if everything else has been maintained. And oil has been changed out and kept topped up. as your one shows. I’ve got my chain kit sitting if I decide it needs done. But I won’t be doing it while the original stays good. I’m only on 76k anyway. I reckon I can go same again with this chain as I’m looking after the oil situation. We shall see. My mechanic will only be charging me 300 labour anyway so it’s not cost putting me off. There tends to be warning with chains. They rarely just snap like belts will if you leave them on too long

My chain has 146,000 km and has never been changed; it's the original one.

At approximately 110,000 km, I changed the tensioner because a rattling noise could sometimes be heard within a few minutes of a cold start. The noise disappeared after changing the tensioner.

The main cause of timing chain problems is the tensioner; its spring is too small and loses strength over time.

You have to prevent the rattling noise as quickly as possible, because that's where the deterioration begins, leading to more serious failures.
And you already know my advice: change the tensioner!

 

[RossJ]

I wouldn't be putting it to the Peugeot garage. They will likely have higher labour charges and probably haven't done the job as often as a indie specialist.

Have you not got someone that specialises in Minis nearby? They'll be familiar with the engine.

There is a Mini garage close by actually, I'll give them a call and see if they do timing chains on RCZs. Thanks

 

[RossJ]

Nope, they only do Minis and BMWs

 

[Verminator]

The THP engine is in BMW minis I would be tempted to call them again and say it's the THP prince engine in your RCZ

 

[RossJ]

The THP engine is in BMW minis I would be tempted to call them again and say it's the THP prince engine in your RCZ

Yea I did tell them that but they weren't interested. That was a Mini dealership though so probably best I avoided them. I found another independent Mini specialist though that was happy to do it, booked in for 31st March fingers crossed it survives until then!

 

[Kenneth]

My chain has 146,000 km and has never been changed; it's the original one.

At approximately 110,000 km, I changed the tensioner because a rattling noise could sometimes be heard within a few minutes of a cold start. The noise disappeared after changing the tensioner.

The main cause of timing chain problems is the tensioner; its spring is too small and loses strength over time.

You have to prevent the rattling noise as quickly as possible, because that's where the deterioration begins, leading to more serious failures.
And you already know my advice: change the tensioner!

I reckon I’ll change that out this year at some point. They aren’t expensive. I quite like a bit of preventative maintenance where I can.

 

[Pedro]

I read a post somewhere on a motoring site few yrs ago where it was recommended for all Prince engines 60.000 Klm is a good starting point aside from the tensioners failing prematurely the chains stretch out to 68 mm then its a case of not if but when it will implode leaving them too long will mean the guides & the "bump rail" in the head will self destruct & end up in the sump & oil pump which means a lot of £ signs on a invoice mine has been changed on 57.652 Klm because it was rattling after the cold start up had finished

 

[EddieJ]

Whenever the chain wears (some say stretched) it can be enough for the timing to move enough to throw codes.
With you having rattling and codes I’d be in the change it soon line of thinking.
i did both my RCZ and 308cc at 50k miles as don’t want an engine bill, I also change the oil every 6k or 12 months regardless on both.
Hoping that’ll keep them good for as long as possible.

Incidentally, what is the independent suggesting it’ll cost?

 

[Pedro]

You'd better sit down
My total bill was £2754 & a old old friend did all the work at his garage in his own time as I have now been told I got Osteoporosis of the lower spine but we agreed that the head should be reconditioned & fully refurbed also included was a water pump thermostat housing heater hoses a new chain with tensioner & complete gasket set coupled with the main crank pulley seal & all new bolts in the chain set also the injectors + valves all fully decarbonised I got a mate whose a service manager at the local dealers & he quoted for that job Id been begging for change from a round £5000!

 

[EddieJ]

You'd better sit down
My total bill was £2754 & a old old friend did all the work at his garage in his own time as I have now been told I got Osteoporosis of the lower spine but we agreed that the head should be reconditioned & fully refurbed also included was a water pump thermostat housing heater hoses a new chain with tensioner & complete gasket set coupled with the main crank pulley seal & all new bolts in the chain set also the injectors + valves all fully decarbonised I got a mate whose a service manager at the local dealers & he quoted for that job Id been begging for change from a round £5000!

Ouch….

 

[RossJ]

Had it done today, £859+VAT so no worse than I was expecting. However, second journey after picking it up and the P000A code is back.

 

[EddieJ]

It may be that the timing is slightly out.
Putting the timing chain lock up kit in will identify this by the fact that in inlet cam lock doesn’t go ‘flat’.
In the tech info it refers to using a chain tensioning tool set to 6nm (I think) Whicker when all torqued up and the actual chain tensioner fitted allows the vanos to be out straight away. The vanos should be torqued with the actual tensioner in, and ensuring that after two full rotations of the engine that the locking kit fits easy.

 

[lfe]

Had it done today, £859+VAT so no worse than I was expecting. However, second journey after picking it up and the P000A code is back.

There's probably something wrong with the variable valve timing (VANOS).

Vanos makes one or both camshafts rotate some degrees from their initial position, according to the ECU maps.

This error occurs when the camshaft isn't positioned where expected.

It could be a problem with the VANOS solenoid valve or because the oil is dirty, as the system works thanks to oil pressure, and if there's dirt in it, a passage can become clogged.