I have a 1.6 petrol RCZ 2013 which had new front discs and pads when I bought it, from day 1 it had brake pad rattle, if you lightly touch the brake pedal it goes away. i notice that there is no anti rattle shims where the ears of the pads run in the calliper housing’s whereas it looks like there are on the rear brake pads. can anyone tell me if this is normal or should there be a set of anti rattle shims on the front as I’m sure this would cure it.
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Front brake pad rattle
- Thread starter fisherman
- Start date
Pedro
Well-Known Member
You may need them off to check if everything is as it should be it may be the slider pins (sticking?) & need copper grease also apply some grease to the back of the pads where they make contact with pistons plus the rattle can caused by too much clearance between the caliper bracket & the caliper pins in the bottom of the bracket bores
Hi Pedro
Thanks for your reply I did take the car back to the garage, They said they had stripped it all down again and everything was okay i.e. slider pins working and I could see there was a copper slip where it should be, They said the pads
Just needed A good bedding in Which they said They had done during a road test with some hard braking, in all fairness when I got the car back it was much better but soon came back. We have had the car now about a year and a half and has barely done a 1000 miles since but on the occasions that we do drive the car the pad rattle is very annoying we are now looking to sell the car so need to get it sorted. when you mention about Too much clearance between the caliper bracket And calliper pins in the bracket bores Might this mean that as the pads wear The clearance between Them will become smaller and might cure the pad rattle. If you put your hand between the spokes of the wheels you can feel the outer pad on both sides move within the calipers which is where I assume the pad rattle is coming from as I say if you slightly touch the brakes As you are driving it cures it. Any more of your thoughts on this situation would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your reply I did take the car back to the garage, They said they had stripped it all down again and everything was okay i.e. slider pins working and I could see there was a copper slip where it should be, They said the pads
Just needed A good bedding in Which they said They had done during a road test with some hard braking, in all fairness when I got the car back it was much better but soon came back. We have had the car now about a year and a half and has barely done a 1000 miles since but on the occasions that we do drive the car the pad rattle is very annoying we are now looking to sell the car so need to get it sorted. when you mention about Too much clearance between the caliper bracket And calliper pins in the bracket bores Might this mean that as the pads wear The clearance between Them will become smaller and might cure the pad rattle. If you put your hand between the spokes of the wheels you can feel the outer pad on both sides move within the calipers which is where I assume the pad rattle is coming from as I say if you slightly touch the brakes As you are driving it cures it. Any more of your thoughts on this situation would be greatly appreciated.
Pedro
Well-Known Member
No the pads are virtually skimming the discs faces with tolerance of perhaps 1-2 millimetres until you apply brake pressure there should be no noticeable clearance between the pistons & the caliper brackets with pads fitted so if it persists it means the pads are chattering until the brakes come on & as for bedding the pads in it can take on average up to 250-500 klms before they have stabilised on the disc faces plus you should never ever apply full breaking force on brand new pads & discs!
Regarding the rattle you could say its the movement of the carriers which hold the outer brake pads are not functioning correctly to take up the wear but I did strip a Citroen with a similar problem & both calipers had sticking pistons which caused persistent rattle/chatter so if what your saying is correct then the garage need to take a different approach because once the calipers are bolted up & the slides are working properly & the outer torsion springs are fitted then there should be no movement or any rattle/chatter of the pads in situ
Regarding the rattle you could say its the movement of the carriers which hold the outer brake pads are not functioning correctly to take up the wear but I did strip a Citroen with a similar problem & both calipers had sticking pistons which caused persistent rattle/chatter so if what your saying is correct then the garage need to take a different approach because once the calipers are bolted up & the slides are working properly & the outer torsion springs are fitted then there should be no movement or any rattle/chatter of the pads in situ
Hi Pedro
Thanks for all the information, The one thing I don’t understand is that when I road tested the car prior to buying it It had the original pads and discs fitted I gave it a substantial road test and there was no sign of any problems with the brakes regarding brake pad rattle, so it’s obviously something that they have done when replacing the pads and discs These were only replaced because I noticed an advisory on the previous MOT stating that there was slight disc wear And the garage said they would get them replaced as part of the sale, I have no idea of what make of pads and discs were fitted but I’m sure they’re not genuine, could cheap Poor quality disc pads Cause rattling In the calipers.
Thanks for all the information, The one thing I don’t understand is that when I road tested the car prior to buying it It had the original pads and discs fitted I gave it a substantial road test and there was no sign of any problems with the brakes regarding brake pad rattle, so it’s obviously something that they have done when replacing the pads and discs These were only replaced because I noticed an advisory on the previous MOT stating that there was slight disc wear And the garage said they would get them replaced as part of the sale, I have no idea of what make of pads and discs were fitted but I’m sure they’re not genuine, could cheap Poor quality disc pads Cause rattling In the calipers.
Pedro
Well-Known Member
Cheap brake pads/discs are not recommended on the Z but the question is why after new disc/pads your getting this problem I could be wrong but I doubt cheapish discs & pads are the culprit as poor quality pads can cause persistent brake squeal & the discs would warp & wear out a lot quicker I wonder if they fitted new sets of anti chatter/rattle shim kits when they refitted the pads ?
Hi Pedro
That’s what I originally thought as on the back Of the car where the ears of the brake pads sit in the calipers there is a set of silver metal sprung shims which sit in the caliper and then the ears of the pads slide along them and I assumed these were to create a smooth surface for the pads to slide on but it also looks like they slightly grip the ears of the pads and if this had a similar arrangement on the front, this would surely stop any brake pad rattle and that was my initial thoughts that are they missing? Do you think they should have a similar arrangement on the front as well as the back.
That’s what I originally thought as on the back Of the car where the ears of the brake pads sit in the calipers there is a set of silver metal sprung shims which sit in the caliper and then the ears of the pads slide along them and I assumed these were to create a smooth surface for the pads to slide on but it also looks like they slightly grip the ears of the pads and if this had a similar arrangement on the front, this would surely stop any brake pad rattle and that was my initial thoughts that are they missing? Do you think they should have a similar arrangement on the front as well as the back.
Pedro
Well-Known Member
The shims act like Anti friction liners so when changing the pads they come in pairs so would be replaced front & rear if needed & once fitted usually copper slip is applied into the runners for the pads to slide more freely as they bed in so its possible they could have left them out or the ones they reused are perhaps corroded which may be causing the pads to start chaffing/sticking/chattering on the slides causing the pads to stick making the rattle once braking force is applied & possibly causing the rattle?
Hi Pedro
There are definitely none of these shims on the front pads The ears of the front pads are running straight on to the caliper definitely with no shims. The brake pads on the rear of the car do have these shims fitted and I believe everything on the rear is still the original, The car has only done 27,000 miles. Would it be safe to say then that if the Front pads do not have the shims Then there would be excess play between the ears of the brake pads where they run Straight into the caliper Because of the fact that the shims are missing and this could be the cause of the rattle ? Can you see if your RCZ has these shims Fitted to the front brake pads/calliper, on mine you can quite clearly see the caliper and brake pad ears between the spokes of the front wheels ( definitely no shims ) If so do you think I could buy them separately or will I have to buy a new set of brake pads which will come with these shims in the brake pad kit.
There are definitely none of these shims on the front pads The ears of the front pads are running straight on to the caliper definitely with no shims. The brake pads on the rear of the car do have these shims fitted and I believe everything on the rear is still the original, The car has only done 27,000 miles. Would it be safe to say then that if the Front pads do not have the shims Then there would be excess play between the ears of the brake pads where they run Straight into the caliper Because of the fact that the shims are missing and this could be the cause of the rattle ? Can you see if your RCZ has these shims Fitted to the front brake pads/calliper, on mine you can quite clearly see the caliper and brake pad ears between the spokes of the front wheels ( definitely no shims ) If so do you think I could buy them separately or will I have to buy a new set of brake pads which will come with these shims in the brake pad kit.
Pedro
Well-Known Member
Fronts on mine only have the Anti rattle torsion springs which fit across the carrier on some variants the brake kits contain 2 sets of shims ? I can guess that your pads are sticking due a build up of dirt between the points of contact its usually a build up of corrosion - brake dust & dirt off the roads etc You could try wire brushing the crap out & degrease the caliper /carrier then wash off with brake cleaner refit & road test with minimal rake force to see if the rattle has disappeared ?
Hi Pedro
Sounds like you have the same brake pad set up as me, and as you say sounds like I’m gonna have to take it all apart check if all is as it should be, clean and replace. I read somewhere that you should use copper slip antiseizure paste on the back of the brake pads and on the ears where they run in the calipers , but you should only use silicon-based brake grease on the caliper slides as this does not affect rubber would you agree with this And also if some of the models have the Shimm kits fitted on them if I can get hold of Some would I be able to fit them on my model. Thanks for all your help.
Sounds like you have the same brake pad set up as me, and as you say sounds like I’m gonna have to take it all apart check if all is as it should be, clean and replace. I read somewhere that you should use copper slip antiseizure paste on the back of the brake pads and on the ears where they run in the calipers , but you should only use silicon-based brake grease on the caliper slides as this does not affect rubber would you agree with this And also if some of the models have the Shimm kits fitted on them if I can get hold of Some would I be able to fit them on my model. Thanks for all your help.
Pedro
Well-Known Member
Mine is the 200 & yes you can smear minimal copper slip on the backs of the pads where they make contact within the carrier also lubricating the slides is per the norm when maintaining the brakes & this also acts as a waterproofed as they are prone to internal corrosion silicon appears to be the choice on modern cars I have in the past used white PH grease which works fine as for the shims I was informed it depends on what type of brake systems are fitted but checking in the W/shop manual they don't come on the Z front calipers so you were correct in your assumption there not fitted on the car
They're not Eicher pads are they? I've heard quite a few stories of them rattling in the carriers.
Has it got the correct width (not diameter) discs on it? Or has it had them "skimmed" and now they're too narrow.
I've seen on GT86s some people change the brakes and inadvertently fit non vented (Prima spec) to the rear. Meaning they aren't wide enough and on a good day the pads rattle.
On a bad day they fall out.
Has it got the correct width (not diameter) discs on it? Or has it had them "skimmed" and now they're too narrow.
I've seen on GT86s some people change the brakes and inadvertently fit non vented (Prima spec) to the rear. Meaning they aren't wide enough and on a good day the pads rattle.
On a bad day they fall out.
Hi Pedro thanks again for all your help when the weather gets A bit cooler I’ll take them apart and see if I can see anything untoward.
Hi there I am not sure what Make the brake pads are, but I know both the pads and the discs were new when fitted and the discs were not skimmed. I’m going to have to take it all apart and I might change the pads as a matter of course anyway but not Eicher one’s. apart from genuine ones what is considered to be the best make of brake pads and discs for that matter .