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Engine Fault. P1338 code. Timing Chain?

neilgsxr69

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Just a shot of my bill when my dealer did my timing kit.



It may help someone in the future negotiating a repair.


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Plecodoras

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So glad you've hopefully got her sorted. fingers crossed... but the but....

the only time I have heard my fans sound like a Boeing 747 is on my gt 200. Little did I know at the time but have since found out on here is that my car was suffering from the dreaded coolant / thermostat sensor issue. As I said I didn't know it at the time but spent 350 quid at what was my preferred mechanic to sort it - he didn't because he changed the ok sensor and not the duff one. I cheated in the end and just disconnected the sensor lead going into the coolant reservoir, top left bottle, cable underneath. Try to disconnect yours and see what happens, if the fans don't come on, then you only need the sensor replacing - someone on here will tell you which one, you cannot damage anything as long as you have water in the tank, if you don't then you have another problem either that or top it up.

Good luck and let us know if this finds your problem.

Cheers M... :beer: :thumbup:
 

ianGT156

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EDIT: I've just realised your car was 2010, not the repair date.

Hi Neil and thanks for sharing the invoice.

The most obvious difference between our invoices is that yours has just eight parts and mine has seventeen. That's quite puzzling. I'm particularly intrigued that yours has no gaskets?

Your labour charge of £55.50 per hour compares to mine of £68.75 per hour. However, if you inflation adjust your 2010 rate to 2018 then yours works out at just over £69.00 hour, more or less identical. I used the Bank of England inflation calculator. It only goes up to 2018 as they only use full years in their calculations, inflation averaged 2.9% per annum over the period. Oh, and the other clear difference, mine charged six hours of labour and yours was less at five and a half.

http://www.clickmechanic.co.uk shows a quote of £691.31 for a timing chain replacement. They show that a dealer price would be £853.98, however that includes an oil change. Mine had an oil change just a week before the chain was replaced.

So all in all, I don't feel too hard done by by Peugeot. It does beg the question though, why didn't they do anything about this when it became a common issue, or did they?
 

ianGT156

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Hi Plecodoras,

Thanks for sharing the fan/thermostat problems. Mine demanded attention today....

~~~~~~~~ wibbly wobbly back in time to yesterday ~~~~~~~~~~

I cleaned my recently polished and waxed car. This required me to reverse her about four metres to a perfect position for cleaning. The engine was on for probably seconds or so. That of course led to the fans blasting away for five minutes.

After washing, I drove forward four metres. Again, five more minutes of the fans blasting.

~~~~~~~~ wibbly wobbly forward to today ~~~~~~~~~~~

Today I drove half a mile to a local shop. Guess what? Five more minutes of blasting fans.

Can you see where this is going?

I came out of the shop while they were still running. I went to start the car and all I got was a few clicks and whirring. No firing at all. Repeat it, no difference at all. I went for a quick and easy engine reset, ie disconnect the battery for five minutes, no difference. Belatedly I realised I had my diagnostic box in the boot. I plugged it in and what I can only describe as relief, P0562 System Voltage Low . A flat battery seemed highly likely, especially as my "Economy Mode" kicking in has been getting progessivley quicker over the last many months.

So I call friends to help do a jump start. No joy at all but one of them had a suspicion that they hadn't found a proper negative earth. Call the breakdown service. Wait, wait a bit more, wait a lot more. Torrential rain was causing problems in more than just Whaley Bridge. Two chaps arrived after nearly two hours. I told them about the attempts at jump starting. They knew what they were doing immediately and my engine was started within seconds.

I had already phoned the local garage and they had ordered in a Bosch S5 battery for me. I had asked for a decent powerful battery and not just the cheapest. I'm not sure what the Ah is. I drove to them and they fairly quickly changed the battery. They couldn't fit me in to look at the fan problem until the 29th August.

Having changed the battery, she started immediately and the fans kicked in. The torrential rain was back. Nobody was waiting for tyres/exhausts etc to be changed so there were six blokes with nothing to do. One of them was intrigued by the fans. Without asking me he got out a torch and had a look around the radiator. Then he went off and came back with a proper diagnostics box/computer/tablet. He eventually came across some historic codes that hadn't been cleared by Peugeot when they did the timing chain. A quick reminder, that the fans started at the same time as the original timing fault. Peugoet simply hadn't looked at the codes or reset them. So it was sorted for free!! Yippee!!! Though I did bung him a tenner on the way out. It was all I had on me or it would have been twenty, lol.

Next week I am going to start typing War & Peace !!

Happy Motoring :beer:
 

Plecodoras

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Well that's great news, let's hope it's all sorted now.
Just shows can you really trust the garage when it comes to fault codes etc. Might be worth a decent code checker.
I've just asked my lovely pig garage to do some work on my body, they said they don't do that any more !!
That's ok next time my bumpers having off or worse, they don't do bodywork !
Good luck and post back in six months to give update we only get bad news items.

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neilgsxr69

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Ian, my timing kit was changed in 2014 so not sure what that does to your calculations? :lol: not sure about the lack of parts changed I just know they’re a top dealer and sorted the problem relatively cheaply :thumbup:
 

ianGT156

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Just when I thought is was all over...

Tuesday 12th August: I did my usual intermediate car clean:

A. Jet wash rinse B. Snowfoam C. Another rinse D. Surfex HD cleaner hand applied to remove squished insects.

No problems, until the day after. When I started her up I got the message "Parking assistance system faulty".

Oh ooh. Did I accidentally fire water into a sensor? I'm always very careful but maybe I did. My cheapo, £29.99 diagnostics box is an ANCEL AD310 and it didn't find any faults. You get what you pay for I suppose. I drive 10 miles to work and 10 miles home via the Co-op. I get out of the car at the Co-op and those fans are going ballistic again. I feel like crying but I "man up" and kick the drivers and passneger doors in instead. Well I didn't really, but I had to suffer the ire of the Mrs when I got home and tell her that the fans are back. She wants to sell her. She's really quite angry and I have to remind her that she was fault free for our first two years of ownership.

This is a subject in it's own right. How much do you pay for a compentent quality diagnostics box? They vary on Amazon from £4 to £4000. Is a £50, £100, £500 one capable enough? This is a real minefield for me and I'm sure for many other people. How much money do you gamble on a diagnostics box paying for itself? I have one car and had hoped to keep it for several more years.

The next day I went to the car to check what the "Total" oil was that I had in the boot as I needed a new 5 litre one for regular topups. I also checked the dipstick. My 300 odd miles or so new engine oil is almost black on the dipstick. I have the wrong one in my boot by all accounts, judging by my service history receipts. I have only ever used the recommended Total INEO Quartz 5W-30 whereas maybe I should have been using 0W-30?. If you look in the manual, the only difference between using 0W-30 and 5W-30 is the climate you live in, the UK fits the 5W better. (also see Jules 1970 post above).

See: Warranty and Maintenance Record booklet, pages 26 and 27. 0W and 5W are both OK for the 1.6THP in the UK ambient temperatures. I live in the lower Pennines at 1000 feet and we have never experienced a temperature lower than -22C, therefore 5W is better?

Back to the point.....

I came back to the house and went to lock the car. It wouldn't lock. I tried locking the car with the key. It wouldn't lock. I was in panic mode again. Timing Chain replaced. A380 fan syndrome for 5 minutes, new Battery required. Parking sensor fault. The doors won't lock.

I'm sure many RCZ owners and former owners will identify with me at this point and think.. "sod it". I'll take the £6500 depreciation over two years and just get rid of this frigging nightmare to webuyanywreck.com. Note that I no longer call her "Rozie" or "she". IT is a money pit and worse of all, I no longer love IT.

I called the Peugeot dealer and tell them that the car won't lock. "Oh no problem, we'll have a look but we have to advise you that we'll charge £90 plus VAT to stick a plug into your dashboard". I felt sick and agreed an appointment. I went back to it to get the service manual. WAHEY!!!!! What a bleeping buffoon I am! The passenger door wasn't shut properly and that's why it wouldn't lock. I feel a complete prat but very relieved, not for the first time. I phone Peugeot and cancel the appointment.

So at the moment I just have fans going berzerk and faulty/inoperative parking sensors Such is life.

BUT But but, I had a day off work today, Monday. The Mrs and I and the Peugeot vehicle mentioned above went shopping for some grub. We parked up at Aldi, Lidl and Tesco and on each occasion legged it away from the A380 that we arrived in as quickly as possible.

Bizarrely there were more people on the roads today than on a red hot bank holiday weekend at the coast. On the way home via twisty "B" roads we also encountered "Road Closed" signs twice, with diversions. Durham County Council are doing their usual "Let's put some tar down and some stone chips on top and our roads are as good as new". Our 11 mile drive home turned into something like 16 miles instead, the diversions were down unfamiliar country lanes.

I had three vehicles in front of me at one point, toddling along at 30 mph on a straigt stretch of road about 1/4 mile. I decided to overtake them all and Rozie went flying past them. Rozie is so beautiful to drive on roads like this. Twisty roads are an absolute delight in the RCZ. Back home we unpacked the car and I decided she needed a clean. She's gleaming in the evening sun and looking beautiful and I have very much fallen back in love again.

Now it's just those fans and parking sensors, but who cares about such minor inconveniences?

Ian :beer:
 

neilgsxr69

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It’s hard to fall out of love with such a beautiful car! :thumbup: and yes either grade of oil is ok it’s just Peugeot have now recommend using the ineo first 0w-30.
 

Petrus Doyle

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Hi Everybody.

I had my 156 minor serviced and MOTd by a non Peugeot dealer on Friday 12th July. The next day I was going to do a short 11 mile round trip, however, after about 1/3 mile I noticed the car was running a bit lumpy. Initially I thought it might be due to the four new brake pads and new front disks just fitted. It wasn't.

Engine Fault Repair Needed. I turned round and went straight home. I called my breakdown service. The call handler told me that in these circumstances all they normally do is give you a recovery service to a garage of your choice. Well the chap turned up ready to take me somewhere. I asked him if he had a diagnostics machine so I could find out what the fault was. He said his little machine was very basic but he gave it a go.

P1338 - misfire on cylinder 2. Well historically I've had this misfiring issue at least twice, once was well over a year ago. The car sounds like a bad diesel but it very quickly returned to running smoothly. On this occasion I got that error code and most bizarrely of all, the fans ran on full blast for five minutes after turning off the really quite cool engine. In the two years I've had my Rozie, the fans have NEVER come on after switching off. I've often been curious why not as my old 205GTi used to do this all the time when the engine was hot.

Back to my breakdown chap, Tony. He managed to clear the code whilst I was looking up what the error was. The car started a bit lumpy but soon ran as normal. He was very keen to work out what was going on, which was good as he was just supposed to be doing a recovery. He said that there was a rattle. He got out a long screwdriver and placed it on the chain tensioner and the other end against his ear. He asked me to listen to it too. Sure enough there is a very rattley sound. Could this be the same as the "Mini Death Rattle"? He was of the opinion that the tensioner needs attention. He was with me for over half an hour and he came accross as being very knowledgeable, an old school mechanic if you know what I mean.

Having decided that I didn't need the recovery (just yet) we set off on our original short 11 mile journey. Rozie behaved impeccably. I did loads of detailing as planned and tried her again this evening, 48 hours after last running the engine. I drove up a hill and clatter clatter clatter, Engine Fault again. I let her run for a while and she returned to normal, albeit with the EML on.

She's 6 years 3 months old and done 47000 miles. She had a major service 12 months ago at a Peugeot dealer. New spark plugs were fitted. She also has a brand new MOT.

What do I do? Allow a dealer to rip me off with diagnostics and replace the coils, the HP Fuel pump and get nowhere? Or do I just bite the bullet and get a new timing chain fitted as she'll need one soon anyway due to the poor design. I really am tempted to get the timing chain done as just having the tensioner replaced is just doing part of the job?

I'm expecting it to be £400 - £800. I live in the North East where we have honest mechanics who don't charge £80 an hour for labour.

Ideas very gratefully accepted.

Ian 🍺
I am getting missfire on 2 cylinders codes 1338
Hi Everybody.

I had my 156 minor serviced and MOTd by a non Peugeot dealer on Friday 12th July. The next day I was going to do a short 11 mile round trip, however, after about 1/3 mile I noticed the car was running a bit lumpy. Initially I thought it might be due to the four new brake pads and new front disks just fitted. It wasn't.

Engine Fault Repair Needed. I turned round and went straight home. I called my breakdown service. The call handler told me that in these circumstances all they normally do is give you a recovery service to a garage of your choice. Well the chap turned up ready to take me somewhere. I asked him if he had a diagnostics machine so I could find out what the fault was. He said his little machine was very basic but he gave it a go.

P1338 - misfire on cylinder 2. Well historically I've had this misfiring issue at least twice, once was well over a year ago. The car sounds like a bad diesel but it very quickly returned to running smoothly. On this occasion I got that error code and most bizarrely of all, the fans ran on full blast for five minutes after turning off the really quite cool engine. In the two years I've had my Rozie, the fans have NEVER come on after switching off. I've often been curious why not as my old 205GTi used to do this all the time when the engine was hot.

Back to my breakdown chap, Tony. He managed to clear the code whilst I was looking up what the error was. The car started a bit lumpy but soon ran as normal. He was very keen to work out what was going on, which was good as he was just supposed to be doing a recovery. He said that there was a rattle. He got out a long screwdriver and placed it on the chain tensioner and the other end against his ear. He asked me to listen to it too. Sure enough there is a very rattley sound. Could this be the same as the "Mini Death Rattle"? He was of the opinion that the tensioner needs attention. He was with me for over half an hour and he came accross as being very knowledgeable, an old school mechanic if you know what I mean.

Having decided that I didn't need the recovery (just yet) we set off on our original short 11 mile journey. Rozie behaved impeccably. I did loads of detailing as planned and tried her again this evening, 48 hours after last running the engine. I drove up a hill and clatter clatter clatter, Engine Fault again. I let her run for a while and she returned to normal, albeit with the EML on.

She's 6 years 3 months old and done 47000 miles. She had a major service 12 months ago at a Peugeot dealer. New spark plugs were fitted. She also has a brand new MOT.

What do I do? Allow a dealer to rip me off with diagnostics and replace the coils, the HP Fuel pump and get nowhere? Or do I just bite the bullet and get a new timing chain fitted as she'll need one soon anyway due to the poor design. I really am tempted to get the timing chain done as just having the tensioner replaced is just doing part of the job?

I'm expecting it to be £400 - £800. I live in the North East where we have honest mechanics who don't charge £80 an hour for labour.

Ideas very gratefully accepted.

Ian 🍺
I am getting p1338 missfire also on 2 other cylinders and p0087 after replacing high pressure fuel pump and timing chain on my 1.6 thp is it ok to drive while lumpy and cylinder missfires showing as these codes? Injectors work done also, all this work within a few weeks, handed back last week, drove home hours drive OK but when started car ten minutes after getting back engine fault light up and loss of power. With that engine work done can it be the cat as it passed mot emissions before they gave it back? The live flow scan show cat not 100 percent and to use premium fuel to help, cat had been flushed by them
 

Pedro

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Camshaft position sensor Bank 1 open circuit or short to positive alternately the sensor itself is faulty -failing causes intermittent fuel &combustion fault+ wrong emission readings engine runs too weak or too rich?
 

Petrus Doyle

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Cat to be changed after diagnostic with Peugeot tool. Smells of exhaust in cabin and exhaust exit is very sooty. If I drive it only locally 10 mins like a Vicar in a Morris Minor I can keep the fan from coming on. Monday carrier to workshop then drive it home I am promised.
 

Petrus Doyle

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Cat to be changed after diagnostic with Peugeot tool. Smells of exhaust in cabin and exhaust exit is very sooty. If I drive it only locally 10 mins like a Vicar in a Morris Minor I can keep the fan from coming on. Monday carrier to workshop then drive it home I am promised.
Also a software upgrade was done at Peugeot dealership as part of general flurry of parts fitting, engine flush after chain chewed plastic guard, head off, cam polish and sensors all round.
 

Pedro

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Cat to be changed after diagnostic with Peugeot tool. Smells of exhaust in cabin and exhaust exit is very sooty. If I drive it only locally 10 mins like a Vicar in a Morris Minor I can keep the fan from coming on. Monday carrier to workshop then drive it home I am promised.
Why don't they test/change the Lambda sensor if the cat is suspected ? The Code P1338 is shown to relate to checking the valve timing & the chain if it was the MIni engine it would be to check the camshaft wheel intake but it will affect the emission's system so it puts the EML light & limp mode is triggered it does not primarily warn of a Cat failure?
 

Petrus Doyle

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Why don't they test/change the Lambda sensor if the cat is suspected ? The Code P1338 is shown to relate to checking the valve timing & the chain if it was the MIni engine it would be to check the camshaft wheel intake but it will affect the emission's system so it puts the EML light & limp mode is triggered it does not primarily warn of a Cat failure?
All of the engine work I think will have covered those checks, it has been through Peugeot workshop also. Let you know when cat fitted, if it doesn't work I'll have it removed and start over.
 

Pedro

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Multiple misfires if not cured through plug or coil packs/electrical open circuit - is in my humble opinion cam/crank out sync it could be the ECU is struggling to adjust the timing / combustion cycle due to the wrong signals from sensor failings ?
Good luck lets hope you get it sorted
 

Petrus Doyle

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Thank you all, I am not as clued up as you are but wishful thinking and being at the mercy of my garage leaves me to leave it to them.
 
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