Coolant Loss, no heat in car - have I a head gasket or air lock issue ?

[badger146]

Define a long and short journey?

 

[EddieJ]

Define a long and short journey?

Cant, can only give an example. If I do 4/5 runs to my local shop in the blue car the direct route which is maybe an all round of 3 miles. The oil starts to warm through but not totally and as it cools draws moisture, repeated a few times and there is enough moisture to emulsify a little.
If I go the scenic route, 10-15 miles the temperature of the oil gets up enough to ‘boil’ off and vent any condensation, throw in a bit of spirited driving and it’ll evaporate quicker. When I take my cars out I prefer the scenic route, more fun too.

Like I said, emulsification at the cap is not a definitive of hgf but can be an indicator to look.

 

[rczpali]

Holding steady at 15 PSI now for last 2hrs . I struggled for a while trying to locate and secure the clip for the water pipe so improvised by attaching a tie wrap so I could locate it before , i clipped it in. all good. so long as no one pulls on the tie wrap im good . I might cut it off tomorrow

Side by side old and new Stats.

 

[badger146]

Took rcz on round trip there ,back 110 miles seems to dissolve build up on cap,still learning on these but main issue is my power steering, the noise wants to drive into wall,so annoying, but maybe syphon it out ,fluid is clear meant to be red,AHH AHH

 

[rczpali]

When I took the old pipe across the back of the enginethere was a little sign of mayo or foam.... around the seal.... and the pipe to the turbo had remnants of the thermostat and some sludge .... hoovered it all out

 

[EddieJ]

Holding steady at 15 PSI now for last 2hrs . I struggled for a while trying to locate and secure the clip for the water pipe so improvised by attaching a tie wrap so I could locate it before , i clipped it in. all good. so long as no one pulls on the tie wrap im good . I might cut it off tomorrow

Side by side old and new Stats.

Holding steady for 2 hours is a positive sign, hopefully with coolant and heat your all good.
Try and monitor the higher coolant pipes when you do get to start it just to be sure ther are no remaining air bubbles. When I flushed mine and changed the thermo on the other I filled, bled and ran it with the blower inside on awaiting heat, squeezing the top radiator hose to push flow, tho that may have just been a me thing. The level did drop a little, maybe quarter of a pint when it cooled off again, but topped up they were grand thereafter.

 

[rczpali]

Took rcz on round trip there ,back 110 miles seems to dissolve build up on cap,still learning on these but main issue is my power steering, the noise wants to drive into wall,so annoying, but maybe syphon it out ,fluid is clear meant to be red,AHH AHH

Wrong fluid or are there different types ? just checked mine and its golden/clear like new engine oil or brake fluid. Mines a 2015 car

 

[rczpali]

Holding steady for 2 hours is a positive sign, hopefully with coolant and heat your all good.
Try and monitor the higher coolant pipes when you do get to start it just to be sure ther are no remaining air bubbles. When I flushed mine and changed the thermo on the other I filled, bled and ran it with the blower inside on awaiting heat, squeezing the top radiator hose to push flow, tho that may have just been a me thing. The level did drop a little, maybe quarter of a pint when it cooled off again, but topped up they were grand thereafter.

Dont really know what PSI the system operates at I presume 15Psi is a reasonable test. Yes , next is to put it all back together in morning , and bring it up to temp and see if theres the white smoke too.

 

[EddieJ]

Took rcz on round trip there ,back 110 miles seems to dissolve build up on cap,still learning on these but main issue is my power steering, the noise wants to drive into wall,so annoying, but maybe syphon it out ,fluid is clear meant to be red,AHH AHH

With 110 miles and it starting to clear on its own, with no other issues (overheating etc). I’d be inclined if it were mine to get on and enjoy.
Any excuse for an extended run and I usually take it. Maybe my ocd would want me to change the oil tho.
To date I have been lucky not having to venture near the steering, maybe drain, flush and fill with PSF for it may resolve.

 

[EddieJ]

Dont really know what PSI the system operates at I presume 15Psi is a reasonable test. Yes , next is to put it all back together in morning , and bring it up to temp and see if theres the white smoke too.

If you get right thru to heat in the cabin and running at 90 with no issues for say 20 or so minutes, let it cool, top it up, get it out for a run and see if the white smoke clears (hopefully just condensation in the exhaust etc). Make sure you see the rad fan cycle on and off and also the water pump electric pulley engage/disengage.

 

[EddieJ]

When I took the old pipe across the back of the enginethere was a little sign of mayo or foam.... around the seal.... and the pipe to the turbo had remnants of the thermostat and some sludge .... hoovered it all out

It might be nothing but try and have a really good look under the oil filter housing for any signs of oil leaking, bit of a sign that the seals are hardened to plastic and might let oil and coolant cross. Though the dry pressure test should hopefully have ruled it out.
Sure do a test run to Belfast and I’ll change them

 

[rczpali]

Thanks EddieJ I'll take a look and if my RCZ ever makes it from Watford to Belfast I will say hello and get you a drink . Thanks for all the support and advice ...

 

[rczpali]

It might be nothing but try and have a really good look under the oil filter housing for any signs of oil leaking, bit of a sign that the seals are hardened to plastic and might let oil and coolant cross. Though the dry pressure test should hopefully have ruled it out.
Sure do a test run to Belfast and I’ll change them

On my list of upgrades for long term to replace the gaskets on the oil cooler. After fixing this I need a break! assuming the stat fix and HG is OK I want to enjoy the car...it looks great in bits and stationary but should be running , I probably should do an oil change service , sort the passenger window. as well.

 

[rczpali]

If you get right thru to heat in the cabin and running at 90 with no issues for say 20 or so minutes, let it cool, top it up, get it out for a run and see if the white smoke clears (hopefully just condensation in the exhaust etc). Make sure you see the rad fan cycle on and off and also the water pump electric pulley engage/disengage.

I'll update tomorrrow, just went and checked gauge and PSI has dropped from 15 to around13 . Dont know if this might be normal over the period or still indicative of a small leak . I will get the car back together weather permitting... and see where I am. I am hopeful that things should be better

 

[rczpali]

A whole day putting everything back and methodically trying to ensure I dont screw up in my frustration.

Thankfully all seems, touch wood ,to be OK. I now have a very warm cabin, heater output is very strong. . Coolant level also holding steady, Run for about 40 mins mix of 30 mins idle and short drive , reluctant to chance my luck so late in the day .... come back home , can here hissing and bubbling within but everything appears OK.

Not counting my chickens just yet , but after a tough weekend with weather , frustrations of the task , I can now see light .... feeling I have actually made some progress.

Good News - The steam / smoke is gone,,,, now seems to be more like what you would expect with any other car, there for a few mins on start up then not really there or noticeable thereafter.

No signs of Mayo


A few learnings , thoughts on the task so far ...

Take photos before you start and as you go..., not that I had any issue , if you are doing this task over a few days ... it helps to have reference for which screw goes where , which cable , cable routing , how cables were fastened .

When putting the battery back together ensure the positive end is as far forward as possible , otherwise when you replace the cover you cant connect the posiitive terminal.

Bleed , Bleed and Bleed again, Three times at least

Dont rely on your pressure guage to be OK even if new.... Ended up getting a different set today as the one off Amazon was giving haphazard readings.

Use long nose pliers , and also a set with the tips at 45 degrees can be helpful.

The arch liners collect crap and that stored water ...so potential for rust points... take them off and give a good hose down maybe biannually ?

Took a while before I could get fans to kick in, maybe 30 mins ....

Can fully understand why no garage would want to do this job and would maybe overcharge should a customer want it done.

Find it hard to comprehend that all of the symptoms I had might have been down to the stat failing / failed.
and finally Thank you EddieJ for advice, tips and getting me to where I am now.


Parts I used

Napa 11846171RMP Stat Coolant Thermostat fits PEUGEOT RCZ 1.6 10 to 15 NAPA 1336CC 9804315380 Quality | eBay UK
Coolant PIpe Water Coolant Pump Hose Pipe Replacement for Peugeot Citroen Berlingo C3 C4 C5 DS3 DS4 DS5 Opel Grandland X Peugeot 2008 207 208 3008 307 308 5008 508 Partner Rcz 1351.VF 1351VF : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive
Harness HouYeen Thermostat Housing Wiring Loom for P-eugeot 207 208 308 3008 C-itroen Berlingo C3 C4 Picasso M-ini R55 R56 R57 1.6 : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive
Coolant Mannol G12+ MANNOL G12+ Ready to Use Coolant Antifreeze, TL774D TL774F, 10 litres : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive
Cap - Febi febi bilstein 37600 Radiator Cap for coolant expansion tank, pack of one : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive

 

[EddieJ]

Hey that’s great to hear, now just start building you confidence in it and get the big mileage going.
Hopefully the hard graft is all done, get it hot and enjoy.

ps, now you have done it, surely you would tackle it again?
Cant waste all your experienc.

Car pics coming soon to??

 

[rczpali]

Hey that’s great to hear, now just start building you confidence in it and get the big mileage going.
Hopefully the hard graft is all done, get it hot and enjoy.

ps, now you have done it, surely you would tackle it again?
Cant waste all your experienc.

Car pics coming soon to??

Thank you , I am pleased., could've been much worse ...... and only two weeks into ownership , this wasn't the experience I would choose but I've learnt more about the car having gone through this , some things I like and some I question the design logic of.... that battery setup as an example !!!! ...defies my logic... .

Just had it idling again for 30 mins , and taken for 10 min drive onto dual carriageway. Not pushing my luck too quick... 2 miles round trip seems OK.

Sometimes knowing a particular car or model may have issues is knowledge that makes you worry. for nothing, sets wrong expectations. Confidence is getting there.. I am still getting to know this RCZ as well as the RCZ as a car , and the Peugeot way of doing things eg the BSI shutdown process. Im used to just taking the battery clamps off and maybe only worrying about a radio code...

YES , now I have done this, yes I would have no hesitation in taking on another stat change or attempting whatever's next. Oil service, and Pass Window. The pipe along the back was something else and I wouldnt want to do again too soon though.. The weather didnt help and I have no garage .

I am always of the belief that if I can do it I should try..... not necessarily about saving money, sometimes it might cost me more , it's about knowing its done, learning and understanding the car better.

Yes i will post some pics once I've washed and cleaned it ,...

 

[rczpali]

If you get right thru to heat in the cabin and running at 90 with no issues for say 20 or so minutes, let it cool, top it up, get it out for a run and see if the white smoke clears (hopefully just condensation in the exhaust etc). Make sure you see the rad fan cycle on and off and also the water pump electric pulley engage/disengage.

Just rereading the entire thread now that the pain of the weekend has passed Im not sure how to check the water pump electric pulley engage / disengage . Is there a process to initiate testing this ?

This weekend Im going to give the car a clean and hopefully get some pics... then start on the passenger door strip to try and sort the window.

 

[EddieJ]

Just rereading the entire thread now that the pain of the weekend has passed Im not sure how to check the water pump electric pulley engage / disengage . Is there a process to initiate testing this ?

This weekend Im going to give the car a clean and hopefully get some pics... then start on the passenger door strip to try and sort the window.

funny you ask, just wrote (I think) all of it up in another thread for manual disengaging, tho you don’t need that bit.

Engine cold, cold, fire it up and the pulley is in its disengaged state, water pump isn’t engaged.
when warmed up the pulley mechanism extends to engage the water pump.
its only disengaged when the ecu sends 12v to it, ie engine running, to wind it up.
Short of it is, just make sure your water pump is engaged when the engine is hot.

Have you got some good journeys done yet?

 

[rczpali]

Update 6 weeks on.... Been a bit busy with work so the RCZ took a back seat over Christmas / New Year.... got it out on the road again, After being parked up for 4 weeks started first time, no warning lights, coolant level correct and all looking good. First drive probably 15 or so miles....90c temp steady... returned home, did the checks coolant, oil cap... and coolant was OK, cap had mayo... slightly down I cleaned the cap and left overnight... following morning coolant still correct, with oil cap clean, took for 2hr drive... probably 40 miles round trip mix of traffic and open road.... returned home , coolant OK, no warning lights, scan no DTCs clean and oil cap clean too... used two days now as a daily drive and no issues ... hoping the oil mayo was residual or from standing and onto next check which is to make sure the water pump is engaging when hot... to confirm it engages is there a visible check eg do I need to take off the off side front wheel and see something move?