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Coolant Loss, no heat in car - have I a head gasket or air lock issue ?

rczpali

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Bet you are slightly relieved. Just to chase down the leak.
Torch and mirror time, think everyone has listed the areas that are known to give leaks.
Just be methodical, and if you have or can get access to a pressure system it could save you a bit of time.

Yes , thanks still want to at least understand why or reassurance as there's so much white / steam smoke from the tailpipe and coolant loss had emptied the tank previously.... last two mornings the level in tank hasnt dropped which adds to my questions .. Maybe an air lock cleared, air lock causing coolant to be dumped into engine somehow ?? leaking slower now ? Still thinking coolant must be getting into engine and being burned off or why the smoke . Is this possible through the Thermostat? or maybe oil cooler is also failing, ? Hopefully the new thermostat will be with me by the weekend and I can dismiss that. Its so crammed in the area , yes torch and mirror time.... I have setup a cover above the car so I can hopefully make progress on tracing any leak whilst its raining. All I can see is coolant on top of the gearbox housing. This hasnt increased or visibly seeing anything dripping from. I am going to order a coolant pressure kit ...
The Thermostat tanks are notorious for failing on all the Prince engines in many different models but you need to match the correct one to your engine you can easily cross-reference part Nos on Autodoc if needed
Thanks, part number for Thermostat appears to be 9808647080 . I have ordered this and hope to start dismantling this evening.
 

rczpali

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Thanks all for help and advice , really appreciate it. will update as I progress
 

rczpali

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Thanks all for help and advice , really appreciate it. will update as I progress
Yes , thanks still want to at least understand why or reassurance as there's so much white / steam smoke from the tailpipe and coolant loss had emptied the tank previously.... last two mornings the level in tank hasnt dropped which adds to my questions .. Maybe an air lock cleared, air lock causing coolant to be dumped into engine somehow ?? leaking slower now ? Still thinking coolant must be getting into engine and being burned off or why the smoke . Is this possible through the Thermostat? or maybe oil cooler is also failing, ? Hopefully the new thermostat will be with me by the weekend and I can dismiss that. Its so crammed in the area , yes torch and mirror time.... I have setup a cover above the car so I can hopefully make progress on tracing any leak whilst its raining. All I can see is coolant on top of the gearbox housing. This hasnt increased or visibly seeing anything dripping from. I am going to order a coolant pressure kit ...

Thanks, part number for Thermostat appears to be 9808647080 . I have ordered this and hope to start dismantling this evening.
Ordered one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08BYHP2DB?smid=A3D1FWBKDAKDY2&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1 , hopefully will help to bleed when refilling too.
 

EddieJ

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That kit looks same as the on I got, did my job diagnosing thermostat pipe…if only my kid bro would remember to bring it back.
If your white smoke goes away after the car is up to temp it could just be warmup condensation, both my prince engines do it, and they can look a little plumey these colder nights. The coolant on top of your gearbox might be your thermostat housing and the air lock occurring as it leaked out and being replaced with air due to the potential fracture height in the pipe. You didn’t overheat (can’t recall reading it), hopefully It is just a ‘simple’ leak. When you searching around have a really good nose toward the water pump and a wee touch of renolit or rubber grease can be useful.

If the oil cooler seals have hardened enough to leak it is more commonly oil to the outside noticed first, sort of up behind the cat, if they have hardened enough for oil and water to exchange you should see something as a tell tale, oily combustion gunk in the expansion tank, or cremolla foam in the oil cap and maybe an increasing oil level. For coolant to be entering the combustion zones you have only really got the head gasket and turbo, and if it was the turbo you’d know it was an issue in other ways. If you still need to reassure yourself you could put a camera in through a spark plug hole and see if the piston tops have been washed. Your coolant system pressure test should help ease your mind, and hopefully only identify a pipe.
 

rczpali

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That kit looks same as the on I got, did my job diagnosing thermostat pipe…if only my kid bro would remember to bring it back.
If your white smoke goes away after the car is up to temp it could just be warmup condensation, both my prince engines do it, and they can look a little plumey these colder nights. The coolant on top of your gearbox might be your thermostat housing and the air lock occurring as it leaked out and being replaced with air due to the potential fracture height in the pipe. You didn’t overheat (can’t recall reading it), hopefully It is just a ‘simple’ leak. When you searching around have a really good nose toward the water pump and a wee touch of renolit or rubber grease can be useful.

If the oil cooler seals have hardened enough to leak it is more commonly oil to the outside noticed first, sort of up behind the cat, if they have hardened enough for oil and water to exchange you should see something as a tell tale, oily combustion gunk in the expansion tank, or cremolla foam in the oil cap and maybe an increasing oil level. For coolant to be entering the combustion zones you have only really got the head gasket and turbo, and if it was the turbo you’d know it was an issue in other ways. If you still need to reassure yourself you could put a camera in through a spark plug hole and see if the piston tops have been washed. Your coolant system pressure test should help ease your mind, and hopefully only identify a pipe.
Thanks appreciate your message, the advice and support. This evenings update.... I don't have a garage so Just went to turn the car around so the front end would be out of the rain under a tarp tied to house and trees :) , with weather as it is wanted to clear the n/s mirror, .sat in the drivers seat, im still getting used to dimensions, shallow windows and less than ideal rear view when trying to reverse in dark with rain falling heavy... press the button to lower the window and nothing moves...try the passenger door switch same... the n/s electric window is now non operational :( It worked perfectly a few days ago,...can hear the sound of what I presume is the motor engage, or a relay and then cut out, doesn't event show an attempt to move ... ,My list of jobs is growing :) Guessing I wanted a project and this is going to be one...Is this French electrics doing what they do, a known issue or I'm just having a run of luck ?

The window can wait.... As far as I know its not overheated...nagging doubts , wondering if it had prior to me buying it ... and that was reason for sale .... Im only just over two weeks into ownership... did the basic checks, ran well and diagnostics were all clean ..everything worked ...heart ruled head im thinking ..., it looks amazing and drove well. and I keep reminding myself everything worked...... . re checked diagnostics just now - nothing logged.. still no EML or warnings on dash.

I've had a good look around the oil cooler and whilst its not clean, theres no significant oil leaking or coolant visible. There is a film of residual oil up near the rocker cover joint both timing chain side and along the back between the manifold but nothing major. Dipstick level looks in the middle , and no mayo ... Frustratingly cannot see any water leaking or dripping, nor hear anything hissing or see visible steam in the engine bay... the coolant in the tank is still pink , up to max and as should be , did another HG test and fluid remained blue.... level hasnt dropped for third day... so adding to the mystery and cause of the significant steam / white smoke from exhaust, no heat in cabin ..... air lock still and coolant being forced into cylinders ? Have had no experience of any car I have owned doing anything similar to this .... it continues even when its reached 90 on the temp gauge . temp gauge doesn't rise.... Because I'm still unsure why, im reluctant to take it out on the road. Cant see any water leaks or even staining on the water pump side.

The thermostat and pressure test kit should arrive so will have to wait for them.... Napa stat unit from Ebay Car Parts in Motion £63 ish Coolant Thermostat fits PEUGEOT RCZ 1.6 10 to 15 NAPA 1336CC 9804315380 Quality | eBay UK and the kit from Amazon.
 

EddieJ

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I am nearly scared to say this, but to date I have no electrical issues other than the driver side mirror took a notion to stutter when folding then couple of days later it stopped. On taking the door card off I found that the cable was unplugged from the door control and the clip that should have supported the cable was not in. Guessed that eventually the unsuported cable eventually jiggled the plug out (even though it had a wee latch). Plugged it in and all good.

Have you heat in the cabin again now?
Engine gets up to temperature and holds at 90?
If yes, Id be sorely tempted to start taking it on little journeys close by to see if the temp stays constant and doesn’t drop etc. The PO didn’t have a service and rad flush done just before you bought it? You had said how good the service history was. Maybe it just wasn’t bled off right.
Also after an actual run you might find the smoke clears up too.
When your new pipe arrives you will se that there is a bleed screw on top of it, that’ll help identify where you need to get at on the one on your car, maybe recheck it is bled right??

JFI my 308cc had poor heating in the cabin and it turned out (my 308 is 2010 now with 50k on it), and I found that the matrix was clogged with sediment, cleaned and flushed without removal and could cook in it after. There’s two pipes going into the bulk just behind the right corner of the engine air filter, bottom was hot hot, and the top was near cold was my tell tale. The matrix lies at a near 45 degrees and has no real force of flow through it, allowing send to settle. It’s the same engine coolant pack and dash as my RCZ

Lidl had portable garages for sale at the beginning of the week, £39.99 sort of a gazebo looking thing, sounds like you might benefit from one though not fitted with heating or lighting sadly. Wife was with me as I walked down the pruck aisle so I wasn’t allowed one and can’t say how good they might have been.
 

rczpali

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Have you heat in the cabin again now?
No , it was there maybe lukewarm at best the first day the coolant didnt drop, but not since.

Engine gets up to temperature and holds at 90?
Yes , according to the gauge, gets to 90 and holds

If yes, Id be sorely tempted to start taking it on little journeys close by to see if the temp stays constant and doesn’t drop etc. The PO didn’t have a service and rad flush done just before you bought it? You had said how good the service history was. Maybe it just wasn’t bled off right.
Its had a service 3000 miles or so before .... believe only oil and filter service , dont think anything else was done.

Also after an actual run you might find the smoke clears up too.


When your new pipe arrives you will se that there is a bleed screw on top of it, that’ll help identify where you need to get at on the one on your car, maybe recheck it is bled right??

Yeah not sure what might have happened so definitely possible not bled... I only filled expansion tank when found empty ..... might give the bleed screw a go before dismantling and try the flush on matrix after that..

Thanks for heads up on Lidl, havent seen anything here like that.
 

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I have noticed this same issues. Not overheating but bit mayo on oilcap.coolant not dropping, also steam coming from exhaust asked garage was told change spark plugs. And hot when upto temp (90) so is my head gasket going? Not the best weather to diagnose
 

rczpali

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I have noticed this same issues. Not overheating but bit mayo on oilcap.coolant not dropping, also steam coming from exhaust asked garage was told change spark plugs. And hot when upto temp (90) so is my head gasket going? Not the best weather to diagnose
This morning my coolant tank is empty again.... no visible signs of leaking .... no mayo on oil cap , Waiting for my pressure test kit to arrive. Did your garage explain what changing the spark plugs would do.... ?
 

rczpali

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This morning my coolant tank is empty again.... no visible signs of leaking .... no mayo on oil cap , Waiting for my pressure test kit to arrive. Did your garage explain what changing the spark plugs would do.... ?
Are you getting warm / hot air to heater inside ?
 

badger146

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Yes gets hot inside ,so kinda think not hg mayo form hope condensation changed oil end August, ask about how to get rid smoke/steam from exhaust "changing spark plugs should do it" my coolant at steady level
 

rczpali

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Before I touch the battery , is
Yes gets hot inside ,so kinda think not hg mayo form hope condensation changed oil end August, ask about how to get rid smoke/steam from exhaust "changing spark plugs should do it" my coolant at steady level

Didnt realise spark plugs could cause the steam smoke also. Hope yours is not HG .... sounds like it might be condensation as your not losing coolant.. mine is losing coolant ... at least a expansion tankful but not consistently. two days all fine next empty.

Been having a look at battery removal ... as there is so little room to even see whats going on. seems overly complex ... wondering if theres any best practice when removing the battery . what will be lost affected by removing power?
 

badger146

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I've just checked thru my folder last owner put ngk plugs in but heard a few places ALWAYS GO BOSCH nowadays maybe few extra quid but no headaches that's my second job.remember BOSCH
 

rczpali

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I will get a set of plugs this weekend as well , dont want to change too many variables though until I have understood where my coolant is going. Found some you tube videos for battery removal . seems overly complicated process
 

badger146

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Yeh seen some aswell seems a bit overkill, rcz is my second car ,1st is volvo, nowhere near the hassle like all issues mentioned, typical French want to do things the awkward way , maybe keep toping up little bits at a time see if holds. Sounds like crack in reservoir or split hose . Good luck!
 

rczpali

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Mines a 156..... The new stat has arrived and it doesnt look like it will fit . Nothings ever simple :(
 

rczpali

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there seems to be a wiring block sitting on top of the Thermostat. Any ideas how this is removed. Looks like it should lif out , but theres no play.

Pictures show only visible sign of coolant , The new stat sitting on top of the engine cover, the old stat in situ, trying to workout how to remove the wiring harness, and my empty coolant bottle.
 

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