Poor Performance on 2.0HDi

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys

I am trying to resolve a problem on the other halfs RCZ. Its a 2010 2.0HDi which is totally standard.

Whilst she has always moaned how slow the car is, right from the day she got it 2 years ago (it wasn't that bad, the same as the others I drove so there wasnt a problem except with her expectation) but in the last week it actually has developed a problem!

Firstly, the car has no low rev acceleration and up hills, she is dropping down the box just to stay ahead of the cyclists.

The error codes I have are as follows (in no particular order!)

P107A - not a clue about this one!
P14A4 - not a clue about this one!
P0299 - I believe this is turbo boost control solenoid
P1497 - Possible EGR Stepper Motor
P2562 - Solenoid Valve?

Now being the kind chap I am, I bought her another boost solenoid and fitted it, but it hasnt done a damn thing. I took the old one apart (as you do!) and there were two small holes in the diaphragm so I was rather hoping to be on the right track.

Now, I think the combination of the P0299 and P2562 could be pointing towards an EGR stuck especially with the P1497 error, so me thinks its time the EGR came off and I cleaned it.

However, I was looking at the Air Doser on this car and am somewhat confused now!

The two pipes up to it have two motors on the valve flaps, however only the right hand one, which is the one from the intercooler has a plug in it. The other has no electrical connection which I believe is the intercooler bypass.

Is it common on the RCZ to have only the one connected? I assume (ha!) that the intercooler bypass would allow fast response and low down acceleration, which this car has always lacked?!??!

Just to add a note to this tale of woe, the car has for a long time done the old "fart" problem at switch off. As it caused me amusement (childish I know) I never bothered to investigate it further - but now, this has disappeared.

Can anyone enlighten me as to any of this please. I have search the net but cannot find anything useful in English.

Cheers

 

[renegade79]

what year is the car and current mileage? can you hear the turbo spooling?

 

[mason5465sharon09]

Hi there,

In connection with what you class as a fart noise after switching off my 2010 hdi also developed the same noise when switched off, this progressively got worse after a long trip to Yorkshire & back we noticed with the bonnet up after switching off the engine one of the two rubber air pipes connected to the air dozer valve sucked flat as you switched the engine off & the noise you described was when it expanded as air filled into it. There was also a rasping type buzzing noise at the back of the engine on the left at the top.

After a trip to the dealership & a visible check by their mechanic he said the air dozer valve was faulty & needed replacing but did not suggest any connection with the noise pointed out to him top left at the back looking from the front.

The car was booked in & a new dozer valve was fitted but on collection of the car we started the car up switched the engine off & it did exactly the same thing it farted, so we refused to drive it off the forecourt & another of their mechanics came to investigate the problem & when my husband pointed out to him the clicking rasping noise at the back of engine he said that the problem was the solenoid that is connected to the operation of the dozer valve & the noise we could hear was it faltering, solenoid was ordered & fitted & we have had no more problems with the farting noise or the operation of the dozer valve, I would just like to say that I didn't loose any power at all with this problem, but this may be the problem you are having with the farting noise if it returns.

I hope this some useful information for you please keep me informed & best of look.

 

[Anonymous]

what year is the car and current mileage? can you hear the turbo spooling?

Its a 2010 with 52k, last serviced around 8k ago. Turbo is fine, once the revs have built up and thus the exhaust gases are driving it. Iam pretty sure the EGR is either stuck open which is the main cause but what is puzzling me is why there is no control over the intercooler bypass circuit for the Air Doser on this car. Its not like a plug has been left off - there isnt one and the actual plug socket doesnt look like there ever was one in there!

 

[Anonymous]

The car was booked in & a new dozer valve was fitted but on collection of the car we started the car up switched the engine off & it did exactly the same thing it farted, so we refused to drive it off the forecourt & another of their mechanics came to investigate the problem & when my husband pointed out to him the clicking rasping noise at the back of engine he said that the problem was the solenoid that is connected to the operation of the dozer valve & the noise we could hear was it faltering, solenoid was ordered & fitted & we have had no more problems with the farting noise or the operation of the dozer valve, I would just like to say that I didn't loose any power at all with this problem, but this may be the problem you are having with the farting noise if it returns.

I hope this some useful information for you please keep me informed & best of look.

Thank you for the input.

Yes, the car did all that which is why i replaced the solenoid and the farting has stopped, but I dont beleive the Air Doser is faulty otherwise top end performance would be non existant as the vane from the intercooler wouldnt open. The farting, I believe, was caused by the hole/split in the solenoid diaphragm. Just as a test, I 'filled' the hole with a bit of airfix glue then reassembled it - it did the trick, but I replaced it anyway.

The way I assumed the system works is thus
At low RPM the AD valve from the IC bypass should be open and the valve from the IC should be closed. As the revs rise and the turbo is spooling up the IC bypass should start to close and the IC vane should start to open.
All that would be fine - only there is no control over the IC bypass vane on this car!

 

[mason5465sharon09]

I hope you can resolve this problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I have had a fun couple of hours removing and refitting the EGR valve. Thankfully although a cumbersome over engineered contraption, fairly easy to remove (you should try getting one off a 1.6TDi VW!)

I stripped the EGR apart and cleaned the butterfly valve with EGR and then carb/brake cleaner. Then I blew out the soot from the cooling section with an air hose (dont shoot me for doing this, but it really is the best way!)

After I had the butterfly all cleaned up and was checking its movement, it is sticking in the open position, I would say from about 75% of its way from closed. When trying to turn it using the key that the vacuum mechanism uses, I couldnt turn it with my fingers at all. I could only move it by using the butterfly itself. No matter what lubrication I could get into the movement, it was still the same.

So, I set the butterfly in the closed position and put it all back together and back onto the car. Before I put the vacuum unit back on, I removed the actuator arm to the valve key (just popped the little ball joint off, so although the vacuum diaphragm is connected, it wont do anything to the valve itself.

I then fabricated a temporary blanking plate out of a bit of tin I had and finished off putting it back together.

Topped the coolant up and starter her up.

Much smoother idle, sounded quieter too. Cleared the error codes and went for a drive. Performance is much improved, although still not brilliant low down - but that may be me expecting too much - its a while since I drove it!

Pulled smoothly through the gears and even accelerated up hill which is a definite improvement.

Re-read the error codes on my return, they have all come back, however the EML isnt on yet.

I had a look at the prices of a new EGR valve and thought billhooks to spending £350+ so will see how it goes. If its not going to be a long term fix I will get the EGR mapped out and add some much needed torque to the car at the same time, something the other half has been badgering me to get done from the day she got it lol!
Cheers

 

[renegade79]

interesting reading. you seem to be well educated on diesel engines. :clap:
you had me like :crazy: with all those acronyms. Nonetheless, I hope you get the problem sorted soon because problems like this on the hdi is extremely rare.
in relation to the lack of low down torque, i find the same with my car but then there is no power in my car until the turbo kicks in....

 

[TAC]

interesting reading. you seem to be well educated on diesel engines. :clap:
you had me like :crazy: with all those acronyms. Nonetheless, I hope you get the problem sorted soon because problems like this on the hdi is extremely rare.
in relation to the lack of low down torque, i find the same with my car but then there is no power in my car until the turbo kicks in....

Time for a R :eusa-whistle:

 

[Anonymous]

I have never driven the diesel but I'd be surprised if it doesn't have some degree more pull in the mid range than you suggest that you've been experiencing. After all, it has comparable torque to the R.

 

[Anonymous]

interesting reading. you seem to be well educated on diesel engines. :clap:
you had me like :crazy: with all those acronyms. Nonetheless, I hope you get the problem sorted soon because problems like this on the hdi is extremely rare.
in relation to the lack of low down torque, i find the same with my car but then there is no power in my car until the turbo kicks in....

Thank you for the kind comments Sir. I know a fair bit, but more about the big Alfa (Fiat) diesel multijet engines than the HDi's as ive been tuning them for years

What I would be interested to know if all the other HDi RCZ's only have air doser control for the intercooler pipe (right hand one). If its standard that there is no control over the bypass, then what is the point of having an expensive air doser at all and I may look at re-engineering it.

As for buying an R guys, well its great in concept, but to be fair, for the money, there are better and quicker cars and we only bought the RCZ HDi for economy as er indoors went from a 50 mile round trip daily to covering the whole of the South West. I rarely drive it as I bang my bleedin' head everytime I get in it!!

 

[Anonymous]

Mine to has little power up hill on low revs but once you select a lower gear and the revs build there's no way I would describe it as slow. The car pulls excellently once the revs are in the sweet spot i.e. 1500 - 3000

As for the pipes
I haven't got a clue what you are on about but it you put up a photo indicating what bits you want to know about I will take a look at my 2011 model.

 

[frankvdb]

interesting reading. you seem to be well educated on diesel engines. :clap:
you had me like :crazy: with all those acronyms. Nonetheless, I hope you get the problem sorted soon because problems like this on the hdi is extremely rare.
in relation to the lack of low down torque, i find the same with my car but then there is no power in my car until the turbo kicks in....

Thank you for the kind comments Sir. I know a fair bit, but more about the big Alfa (Fiat) diesel multijet engines than the HDi's as ive been tuning them for years

What I would be interested to know if all the other HDi RCZ's only have air doser control for the intercooler pipe (right hand one). If its standard that there is no control over the bypass, then what is the point of having an expensive air doser at all and I may look at re-engineering it.

As for buying an R guys, well its great in concept, but to be fair, for the money, there are better and quicker cars and we only bought the RCZ HDi for economy as er indoors went from a 50 mile round trip daily to covering the whole of the South West. I rarely drive it as I bang my bleedin' head everytime I get in it!!

I'd like to answer your question but don't know where to look.
Maybe you can post a picture and indicate where you expect that second control to be?
BTW I can't fault the performance nor economy of my HDi. It has reached 230 km/h and the average economy is around 5.5 l/100km (I do verify this with my diesel fuel slips). In imperial measures that is 143 mph and 51 mpg. Also torque is excellent; only need fourth gear for overtaking on "A" roads which accelerates from 50 mph to 80 mph in a few seconds.

BTW I do have that solenoid valve issue, i.e. the groan after switching off. Should I have that sorted?

 

[DKZ5745]

I think I need a car that farts. At last, somewhere I can pass the blame on :lol:

 

[renegade79]

Mine to has little power up hill on low revs but once you select a lower gear and the revs build there's no way I would describe it as slow. The car pulls excellently once the revs are in the sweet spot i.e. 1500 - 3000

As for the pipes
I haven't got a clue what you are on about but it you put up a photo indicating what bits you want to know about I will take a look at my 2011 model.

I'd like to echo what you have said here. My car behaves exactly the same as yours and no farting :lol:

 

[mason5465sharon09]

I would certainly get the solenoid replaced this will stop the farting noise :thumbup:

 

[Anonymous]

How old or after what distance do they start farting ?

 

[DKZ5745]

I think I was quite young :eusa-think:

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks you for the help guys.

The picture shows the two inlet pipes taken from the front of the car.

The one on the left is the intercooler bypass, the one on the right is the one from the intercooler.

As can be seen there is no plug into the butterfly control on the bypass.

What do you have???

 

[Anonymous]

Just if it helps anyone, the part number for the solenoid is 9674084680. It is used across a number of PSA models and is not unique to the RCZ.

However, I have not found an aftermarket part to be available from the likes of Eurocarparts, GSF, Barum, Allparts etc. so its either one off eBay or Peugeot. There may well be an aftermarket one that will do, but I haven't had the time or inclination to go testing!