Learning to drive the R

[Claret63]

Hi all, well after my early morning drive this weekend with the R, I am still blown away with the precision of this car in the bends and straight line power when on the move, strange as it is I could swear I felt a little wheel spin when planting my right foot at speed, I put this down to the continental tyres currently on the car which in my opinion are not suited.

One thing I have noticed though at speed when not on a totally flat stretch of motorway, the car feels a little less planted than I would like, I am sure this is due to the suspension set up being harsh which I like, plus the weight of the car if that makes sense.

I would like to hear other people’s views please on this, plus their experiences.

 

[Kerr]

What other performance cars have you driven?

All cars are unsettled on rough roads. Some become really nervous. A lot of people want 4wd traction, but you've still got the car moving and increased braking distances.

I've recently changed over to Bluestuff brake pads from Ferodo DS2500. The DS2500 were really good and I was scared the Bluestuff might not be too good for normal driving. They are still really good at cold at a performance step up overall.

I'm considering a suspension upgrade next. I'd like to drive a car with a suspension upgrade to see what difference it makes.

 

[Claret63]

What other performance cars have you driven?

All cars are unsettled on rough roads. Some become really nervous. A lot of people want 4wd traction, but you've still got the car moving and increased braking distances.

I've recently changed over to Bluestuff brake pads from Ferodo DS2500. The DS2500 were really good and I was scared the Bluestuff might not be too good for normal driving. They are still really good at cold at a performance step up overall.

I'm considering a suspension upgrade next. I'd like to drive a car with a suspension upgrade to see what difference it makes.

I had a supercharged Monaro for 15 years running 500 brake, completely different in my view as it is a GT car, driven plenty of other stuff including Porsche bmw etc.

 

[apple3337]

I recently took my R on a 500 klm round trip up to Victoria's mountains. Our rural roads can be pretty nasty in places. It handled it superbly. And going up the twisty mountain roads was magic. I also have a 2012 RS Clio. It has great handling too but it jumps and skips on bumps compared to the R. Somehow in the R I feel like they have balanced great handling without compromising ride quality. The Pug Sport chassis tuners sure know how to set up a car that's for sure.

 

[Kerr]

I had a supercharged Monaro for 15 years running 500 brake, completely different in my view as it is a GT car, driven plenty of other stuff including Porsche bmw etc.

I think the R is a very good handling car. On smooth roads it's easy to drive fast and predictable. I' d put it on par with some of the better hot hatchbacks. It is quite easy to drive fast, but is fine doing it.

My A45 AMG was really easy to drive fast, but it had to be driven too fast to create fun.

I've owned cars the a BMW 335i and the 3.0 M235i. Both are really good cars, but when you try to drive fast in them they aren't as sharp or as easy to drive. The R is more fun.

I don't think the ride is as harsh as some people say. Maybe my additional padding on my backside clouds my judgement.

The one thing I notice over other cars is the turbo lag. The throttle response isn't as sharp. Small engine big power issue.

I have been considering a suspension upgrade. I'm also curious how much a remap can help the car.

 

[Claret63]

I think the R is a very good handling car. On smooth roads it's easy to drive fast and predictable. I' d put it on par with some of the better hot hatchbacks. It is quite easy to drive fast, but is fine doing it.

My A45 AMG was really easy to drive fast, but it had to be driven too fast to create fun.

I've owned cars the a BMW 335i and the 3.0 M235i. Both are really good cars, but when you try to drive fast in them they aren't as sharp or as easy to drive. The R is more fun.

I don't think the ride is as harsh as some people say. Maybe my additional padding on my backside clouds my judgement.

The one thing I notice over other cars is the turbo lag. The throttle response isn't as sharp. Small engine big power issue.

I have been considering a suspension upgrade. I'm also curious how much a remap can help the car.

Yes turbo lag on low rpm is shocking I have found you need to drop down a cog to avoid.

I have always fitted coilovers to my weekend cars and I love them, (but not for a daily), as you can set the perfect height and rebound, the R feels very similar to a coil over set up but without the height adjustability.

I am thinking for now I want to keep the car totally original for the sake of the extended warranty and for future value.

What type of suspension upgrade are you thinking and I am also curious on your remap idea of how that can cure lag at low revs, or is it to improve throttle response?

 

[Kerr]

Yes turbo lag on low rpm is shocking I have found you need to drop down a cog to avoid.

I have always fitted coilovers to my weekend cars and I love them, (but not for a daily), as you can set the perfect height and rebound, the R feels very similar to a coil over set up but without the height adjustability.

I am thinking for now I want to keep the car totally original for the sake of the extended warranty and for future value.

What type of suspension upgrade are you thinking and I am also curious on your remap idea of how that can cure lag at low revs, or is it to improve throttle response?

It was KW V2 I was looking at, but I'm fearful they don't improve the car much. The same with a remap. I'd hope it would help a bit with the lag.

The issues with a rare car that we don't hear too many owner's experiences or get a drive in someone else's car.

 

[apple3337]

Turbo lag? I reckon the torque curve is very even lol. Just drop down a gear or 2 and let the engine rev like it's designed to do!!!

 

[turboguy]

Great handling for sure, driven at sensible speeds (within 60mph ) overtaking everything on snake pass (road between chesterfield and A6 to Manchester) even around all the sweeping bends as you can see all the way around them. Have footage taken from my dash cam. The great tyres ensured it was planted to the road at all times ,powering out of the sweepers the LSD was pretty awesome. Yes the car can wheel spin but very rarely as I dont have a heavy right foot

 

[Claret63]

Great to hear different opinions on this, I feel I am steadily growing into the R, after coming from a V8 not been really using the revs as the car engine is designed to be used.

I have become addicted to the road holding on this thing, example this morning on my 5 am drive, several times on various roundabouts I went round several times each time faster, I lost my bottle to go faster, the car just grips like it’s on Velcro, I wondered how much I would have to push before the back end steps out!

The engine is an absolute peach when pushed, sweet spot for me between 4-6rpm.

I really am learning how to drive the R and starting to really appreciate the sheer class of the engineering Peugeot sport put into this fantastic car.

 

[Kerr]

Grip levels are really good. What tyres have you got on?

Spinning up both front wheels exiting a corner is always in interesting moment. It usually needs a damp or poor surface.

 

[Claret63]

Grip levels are really good. What tyres have you got on?

Spinning up both front wheels exiting a corner is always in interesting moment. It usually needs a damp or poor surface.

Running Continental sport contact 5 at the moment, they were on the car when I bought it, not my first choice as I think the compound is hard on these and they are a little noisy, when the change comes I will swap out for the original spec tyres or a Michelin which I prefer.

I know what you mean about exiting corners, it’s like the car claws round, something else I am learning about the car.

 

[RCZ-R]

Nice write-up. Love to hear about the R being pushed on a spirited drive. Brings back memories...

The R is quite well set up from factory. Both on springs and damping. I never felt a need to put her on aftermarket coilovers. Maybe some Öhlins would do the job better, but there are none for this car.

But what the R definitely needs are proper tyres with sufficient damping on the side walls. I'm not talking about some cheap, squashy, pulpy tyres but some that have a bit of damping in them and which still maintain precision. Because you need that too. Precision, damping, grip. This is what the characteristics a tyre for the R should have. In that order.
So the Michelin PS4 or PS4S will do a great job. Or go for the new PS5 which I also tried on other cars and is also a great tyre. You can also give it a shot with the new GY Assymetric 6 which should do an even better job on the R. Contis were never good for the RCZ, none of them. Contis tend to get wooden as they wear off.
The suspension setup with the LSD has plenty of grip, as you already experienced, so those other characteristics will give you an advantage and glue the car even further to the tarmac.

And yes, it takes a lot to unsettle the R. Or to let it drift a bit with its tail. And yes, it can do that too. But the biggest up is its out of the corner traction. You will need to reprogram your brain where you have to step on it before it hits the apex of a corner and then stay on it. Hold that steering wheel very tight. It will pull you out of that corner faster than you can think. It takes some time to learn it, especially if you come from a powerful RWD car. But the fun never stops.

Overall the R is very well set up. I pushed her through tight autobahn bends at over 150 mph and never sweated once. Had some beemers M3 or S Audis on my tail and they gave up. It has a remarkable suspension setup if you consider it comes from a boring 307. Pug sports did magic to it.

Combined with the short geared box it is a lot of fun on B roads. Yes, you need to work that box, but why not? It adds to the fun and joy.

My R often ended a trip like this with a glowing turbo and stinking brake pads (never changed them too, in regards of brand, just stayed with the stock ones). I miss her a lot...

 

[Kerr]

But what the R definitely needs are proper tyres with sufficient damping on the side walls. I'm not talking about some cheap, squashy, pulpy tyres but some that have a bit of damping in them and which still maintain precision. Because you need that too. Precision, damping, grip. This is what the characteristics a tyre for the R should have. In that order.
So the Michelin PS4 or PS4S will do a great job. Or go for the new PS5 which I also tried on other cars and is also a great tyre. You can also give it a shot with the new GY Assymetric 6 which should do an even better job on the R. Contis were never good for the RCZ, none of them. Contis tend to get wooden as they wear off.

For me tyres are one if not the most important part on a performance car. I will always stick to the tried, trusted and proven manufacturers.

My car had Continental Sport Contact 5 96 load rating when I got it. I thought they were good.

I went for Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 2 with the 92 load rating. 92 is the recommended load rating. The sidewalls were too soft and they didn't feel good.

Next I had PS4s with 96 load rating. They were really good. A massive step up. They did go off with a lot of tread left.

I'm now well into a set of Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 6 with the 96 load rating. They are very good.

I think I will stick with the 96 load rating moving forward.

 

[RCZ-R]

Sure they are. They are the only insurance between the road and the ditch.

On my R I had Goodyears, Pirelli and Michelins only. The Michelin PS4s stood out as exceptional, down to the very 2mm of tread. I wrote an exhaustive review on those (and a comparison to the PS4) here on the forum.
But going by today and the advance of tyre technology I'd also go for the newest GY Asy 6 as you did.

The PS5 is more of a touring-sports car tyre. Still very, very impressive and with lower rolling resistance than the PS4(s). But if you want to go for the final pinch of steering precision, then the GY Asy 6 is your choice.

Back to topic:
Have one of you attempted an emergency braking in the R on really good tyres? It is tearing your face off Don't do it with missus in the passenger seat. She might dismiss you to couch sleeping for few nights after that.

Basically the brakes+good tyres give the R a huge advantage over other cars. And the quite low wet weight of the car as well (1340kg). I could easily outrun old 911s on the race track. With winter tyres on my R and summer tyres on them.

 

[Kerr]

Have one of you attempted an emergency braking in the R

I was running DS2500 pads before. I've recently changed over to EBC Bluestuff and they are much better.

I was concerned that the trackday compound might not be great when cold, but they are still good when cold.

 

[Claret63]

Sure they are. They are the only insurance between the road and the ditch.

On my R I had Goodyears, Pirelli and Michelins only. The Michelin PS4s stood out as exceptional, down to the very 2mm of tread. I wrote an exhaustive review on those (and a comparison to the PS4) here on the forum.
But going by today and the advance of tyre technology I'd also go for the newest GY Asy 6 as you did.

The PS5 is more of a touring-sports car tyre. Still very, very impressive and with lower rolling resistance than the PS4(s). But if you want to go for the final pinch of steering precision, then the GY Asy 6 is your choice.

Back to topic:
Have one of you attempted an emergency braking in the R on really good tyres? It is tearing your face off Don't do it with missus in the passenger seat. She might dismiss you to couch sleeping for few nights after that.

Basically the brakes+good tyres give the R a huge advantage over other cars. And the quite low wet weight of the car as well (1340kg). I could easily outrun old 911s on the race track. With winter tyres on my R and summer tyres on them.

Fantastic information thank you RCZ R, not tried emergency braking yet, just had new pads and disc all round plus new front callipers, so need to bed in first.

Having said the above, I want to perfect corners first as you describe, sounds fascinating! I am really hooked with this car, plus it’s the only car I have had where I wouldn’t change a thing from factory.

It really does feel like a track car straight from the factory , not that I have had one before! it will certainly test my bravery of how far I can go with the road holding, definitely need to change the tyres though.

 

[RCZ-R]

Yep. Don't attempt before swapping those tyres.

I never experienced out-of-corner traction problems in dry when rolling on the Michs. Also in wet the PS4s gripped very, very well. Both, in traction and under braking. I kept them on the car down to 0°C outside temp because they performed so well in wet. Only when it started to snow I switched to the Pirelli winter tyres (which were mediocre in dry but of course way better in snow).

I also recommend to change the gearbox oil more frequently than advised by Pug. Especially when your R is pushed and you let that LSD work. Fresh oil will keep it in good shape for a longer period.

As you say, I also was never tempted to change anything on my R. Nothing. It felt just perfect as it came from the factory. The brakes, their stopping power even after multiple emergency braking, clutch, suspension (sure, if there was Öhlins available for her, maybe I'd give it a go), seats (oh those lovely R seats!), short shifter. Just a perfect package for me.

One more thing about spirited drive & drive techniques: as far as I recall the ECU on the R allows braking and accelerating at the same time. It does not cut off the throttle when you are under braking and accelerating at the same time. This technique can come handy in some situations. And I do not mean the heel-to-toe by that. That works on the R lovely too.
I mean, stepping on the brake and on the accelerator at the same time. I was doing that with my left foot on the brakes while accelerating out of some type of corners (with changing apex degree). While staying on full throttle, letting the LSD do the work and if suddenly the degree of the corner increased, I was able to stabilize the car with left foot braking (just a bit, nothing severe) so it did not unsettle while the center of mass was walking all over the place.
This is such a nice detail proving this car is a true sports car. I couldn't do that on my Megane Sports as it was cutting off throttle when brake pedal was depressed.

 

[RCZ-R]

I was running DS2500 pads before. I've recently changed over to EBC Bluestuff and they are much better.

I was concerned that the trackday compound might not be great when cold, but they are still good when cold.

Have you had a chance to verify and compare the results with a tool like the Dragy?

 

[Kerr]

Have you had a chance to verify and compare the results with a tool like the Dragy?

I don't have a draggy. The difference is noticeable in feel.