Here we go again.

wilsofar · Apr 28, 2021

As a veteran of the dreaded timing chain fiasco on a Mk1 156,I thought buying a 2014 200 with 40k would be a fairly safe bet!

Only recently bought it and hadn’t noticed on starting from cold any undue rattles.

However this evening started it up (it was facing downhill not the usual uphill) and there was a metallic rattling which didn’t immediately disappear.

At this stage I’ve not taken it for a run but will do so tomorrow.

No warning lights,no bad running,steady tick over,oil level up to max,and everything running beautifully!

Seems that this is a warning so I’ll probably get the timing chain kit fitted but wondered if having the kit with the VVT system is worth the extra approx £150 Plus extra labour?

jim.2007 · Apr 28, 2021

i usedto have an act system on the t350, pressurises top end before starting is that the same your on about? horrendoes oil starve problems on the speed six...
ive had pug deisels from 1996 with galatic miles on them, 309d,309td,405td,406td, proved to be bullitt proof that why i went for the hdi, love to know more what the flaw is with the petrol and what you have gone thru? any thread links?

wilsofar · Apr 28, 2021

Likewise I ran 405D 406hdi,607hdi as Airport Private Hire vehicles all topping 500k and only the 2.2 607 shredded its timing chain!

I’ve steered clear of diesels privately for perhaps 10 years due to problems with particulate filter clogging up and have run petrol cars since without any problems until now (Daihatsu Sirion Rally 2,Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart,Renault Clio Sport 197 running without any problems at all!)

My problems on the 156 :- Timing chain,HPFP, Oil leaks,water leaks,thermostat,coil packs.

What has been the biggest bugbear is that codes showing up usually lead wrongly to an incorrect conclusion.

If the HPFP had been replaced in the first instance then many of the erroneous codes would not have lead me to spend vast sums unnecessarily -the timing chain for instance was replaced only 20k after it had already been done just because the error codes said so! etc etc.

Pedro · Apr 29, 2021

I have the 200 & replaced the Chain tensioner at 37.520 as it was getting a bad case of "Rigor mortice" so put a new one in & no issues since the other problem these engines suffer with is Oil I have changed mine at between 3.500-40000 & I believe this has prolonged the chain life immensely & the car runs smooth as if it was new

Marmite · Apr 30, 2021

Pedro said:
I have the 200 & replaced the Chain tensioner at 37.520 as it was getting a bad case of "Rigor mortice" so put a new one in & no issues since the other problem these engines suffer with is Oil I have changed mine at between 3.500-40000 & I believe this has prolonged the chain life immensely & the car runs smooth as if it was new

36,500 miles between oil changes

Pedro · May 1, 2021

Yea that should read 3.500-4000

Jumper · May 5, 2021

Cant say I'm suprised really. There seems to be some kind of false theory that later models have a better tensioner and stonger guides. Dont know where that came from or what evidence there is to substantiate that.I'll happily stand corrected if proven wrong. However, no matter what year these were built the cam chain and guides are a weak link if regular oil changes are not carried out with the correct oil spec. I changed my tensioner and the new genuine Pug one was identical to the one I took out last yeat 2020. But the spring inside was a lot stronger in the new one. I personally dont think its a bad idea just to change the Tensioner every couple of years as long as you havnt got the death rattle, yet a common responce to that is change the chain as well! Why when its fine?

Ian J. · May 5, 2021

Unfortunately have to agree with all the above. My 2015 30k mile 156 needed a new timing chain last year and its one of a number of common issues with this engine which is a real shame because they are great cars for very little money . But then I guess if they didn't have these well documented issues then residuals would be higher and you would pay more for the cars in the first place.
No better looking car for £10k on the planet and I've owned new cars in the past which have depreciated more in 12 months than I actually paid for my current RCZ last May. So its not all bad !.

neilgsxr69 · May 5, 2021

Jumper said:
Cant say I'm suprised really. There seems to be some kind of false theory that later models have a better tensioner and stonger guides. Dont know where that came from or what evidence there is to substantiate that.I'll happily stand corrected if proven wrong. However, no matter what year these were built the cam chain and guides are a weak link if regular oil changes are not carried out with the correct oil spec. I changed my tensioner and the new genuine Pug one was identical to the one I took out last yeat 2020. But the spring inside was a lot stronger in the new one. I personally dont think its a bad idea just to change the Tensioner every couple of years as long as you havnt got the death rattle, yet a common responce to that is change the chain as well! Why when its fine?

I’ve been told from one of the French RCZ clubs that Peugeot have now brought out a 3rd revised tensioner.
The phase 2 cars did come with a revised tensioner and slightly beefed up guides to the MK1 but these can be retro fitted to the MK1 but as stated previously regular quality oil changes is the way to go for longevity

Jumper · May 6, 2021

neilgsxr69 said:
I’ve been told from one of the French RCZ clubs that Peugeot have now brought out a 3rd revised tensioner.
The phase 2 cars did come with a revised tensioner and slightly beefed up guides to the MK1 but these can be retro fitted to the MK1 but as stated previously regular quality oil changes is the way to go for longevity

That's amazing with the amount of MK2's suffering from the same fate with the chain/guides. That must be attributed to poor maintenance then. If the part numbers are available for the "New guides" and "Tensioner" I'm sure that would help owners no end to ensuring that when they require both of those parts they are actually obtaining the upgraded ones as appose to old stock. I recall being shocked reading last year either on here or a Group that an owner with a MK2 on 17K required the full timing kit! That's shocking.

DKZ5745 · May 6, 2021

Jumper said:
That's amazing with the amount of MK2's suffering from the same fate with the chain/guides. That must be attributed to poor maintenance then. If the part numbers are available for the "New guides" and "Tensioner" I'm sure that would help owners no end to ensuring that when they require both of those parts they are actually obtaining the upgraded ones as appose to old stock. I recall being shocked reading last year either on here or a Group that an owner with a MK2 on 17K required the full timing kit! That's shocking.

MK1’s were the model that suffered from tensioner guides failing. The MK2 had very few (relatively) cases. Had mine for over 7 years with no issues.

neilgsxr69 · May 6, 2021

DKZ5745 said:
MK1’s were the model that suffered from tensioner guides failing. The MK2 had very few (relatively) cases. Had mine for over 7 years with no issues.

There’s still plenty of MK2 cars needing new timing kits Pete even R’s are failing I know one R owner who’s on their second replacement

Ian J. · May 6, 2021

Don't think you can blame poor maintenance either, my car was 4 years old with 30k miles and 5 service stamps in the book when the chain needed replacing
Its just one of the weak points of the 1.6 petrol unfortunately.

DKZ5745 · May 6, 2021

I must have a Monday morning car rather than a Friday afternoon one

Flanners · May 7, 2021

More frequent (decent) oil changes must surely help if car used as a daily at least change it every 4K miles and use genuine OE chain kits which will have the latest designs. Some of the 3rd party replacement chain kits and oil used by garages is utter shite.

The myth of chain 'life of the engine' or 100K miles is just that I think, the guides and chain tensioners in modern engines are now part of regular servicing/replacement. I had both my chains etc replaced in my VX220 yesterday@30K miles due primarily to it's age. guides were fine, but tensioner was iffy and sticking just like the problems with the RCZ set up. Some say a tensioner change should be performed every 20-30K on the RCZ.

As I understand it the chain tensioner and guides have been changed on the THP/RCZ so this would of helped some owners, but some owners appear to continue driving their cars with obvious chain rattle and/or don't bother checking their oil relying on the display in the car to inform them....utter madness

wilsofar · May 13, 2021

Just an update to my original posting.

My garage has changed the oil/filter,replaced the fan belt plus tensioner which he said was noisy (tensioner was £60+) air filter and plugs,but for whatever reason there is now no timing chain rattle at any point and now sounds like a well running machine.

To be honest I don’t think it’s had more than one service in its 40k life-there is only one stamp !!

Anyway it will be annually or 4K oil change in the future -hopefully I’ve saved it just in time.

Plus using 100 octane will also keep things clean.

Jumper · May 13, 2021

DKZ5745 said:
MK1’s were the model that suffered from tensioner guides failing. The MK2 had very few (relatively) cases. Had mine for over 7 years with no issues.

That's a rather sweeping statement that is difficult to substantiate in the real world. However, the numbers built of each mk1 and 2 could attribute to that. Plus you have to add in the use of the car. Some owners like myself dont use it as a daily drive. And as such a weekend car can provide the owner the luxury of servicing it, maintaining it and generally looking after it at their leisure. Thus preventing or completely eliminating premature failures on a mk1 or 2.

Pedro · May 13, 2021

I think we have all been sideswiped with the Chain & guides issues in my opinion for what its worth the real problems are with the tensioners when they start to fail they kill off the chain & guides & lets not forget the maximum amount of chain stretch before its condemned is 68 mm so if it starts to run out slack reaching that parameter then you know the real reason why

DKZ5745 · May 13, 2021

Jumper said:
That's a rather sweeping statement that is difficult to substantiate in the real world. However, the numbers built of each mk1 and 2 could attribute to that. Plus you have to add in the use of the car. Some owners like myself dont use it as a daily drive. And as such a weekend car can provide the owner the luxury of servicing it, maintaining it and generally looking after it at their leisure. Thus preventing or completely eliminating premature failures on a mk1 or 2.

It’s not really a sweeping statement, more of a factual one.

The MK1 tensioners were eventually known to have a design fault resulting in them needing to be replaced prematurely. The early replacements were of the same part, causing them to fail more than once.
Eventually, a modified part was produced, and when this was fitted it resulted in far less failures.
The MKII was produced after this modified part was developed, so all the MKII’s were fitted with this part as standard resulting in far less failures in the MKII than in the MK1.

Logikmaster · May 13, 2021

DKZ5745 said:
It’s not really a sweeping statement, more of a factual one.

The MK1 tensioners were eventually known to have a design fault resulting in them needing to be replaced prematurely. The early replacements were of the same part, causing them to fail more than once.
Eventually, a modified part was produced, and when this was fitted it resulted in far less failures.
The MKII was produced after this modified part was developed, so all the MKII’s were fitted with this part as standard resulting in far less failures in the MKII than in the MK1.

Design evolution right there - common in all OEM’s globally; first product has an issue, fix it with the same, same result so redesign, guess what version 1 still failing but version 2 has stemmed the mortality ratio - collective sigh of relief

then new models get version 2 until version 3 is needed because v2 didn’t quite hit the design needs as it was rushed through to stop the high mortality rate of v1

Here we go again.

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